From themagus at swbell.net Tue Jan 2 22:06:52 2007 From: themagus at swbell.net (David Blackwell) Date: Tue Jan 2 22:10:28 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions Message-ID: <200701030309.l0339iUG016436@nlpi001.sbcis.sbc.com> I have seen repeated reference to Demesnes being classified as Mid Approval, and I just searched the addendum fairly thoroughly without finding such a reference. Can anyone cite the source for this? Also, I seem to remember it being ruled that Create Demesne used the advanced prolonged chart. Can anyone provide a reference for that? David Blackwell VST Awakening - Kansas City ARST Awakening - North Central US2002021120 "Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." -Colin Powell "The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts DISCLAIMER: All information relating to the Camarilla Sanctioned Chronicle is a work of cooperative fiction. Any similarity to real persons or events is coincidental. This communication relates to a game, and has no factual basis. From shadow-sage at comcast.net Wed Jan 3 00:22:32 2007 From: shadow-sage at comcast.net (shadow-sage@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jan 3 00:22:34 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions Message-ID: <010320070522.1057.459B3D98000932FB000004212200751090020E03079B9B0A9D9F03@comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "David Blackwell" > I have seen repeated reference to Demesnes being classified as Mid Approval, > and I just searched the addendum fairly thoroughly without finding such a > reference. Can anyone cite the source for this? It's in the addendum, under Places of Power, last line. Quoted below for convenience... It doesn't come up in a word search because it's spelled wrong. ;-) "4.1.12 Places of Power Level 1-3 Hallows are Low Approval, Level 4 Hallows are Mid Approval and Level 5 Hallows are High Approval. Verges require Mid Approval. Abyssal verges require High approval. Atlantean era sites (ruins, tombs, temples, etc) require Top Approval with Master Notification. PCs may not be Hallows. Movable items or NPCs may be Hallows with Top Approval. Creation of or entering play with a Soul Stone and/or Demense is Mid Approval." > > Also, I seem to remember it being ruled that Create Demesne used the > advanced prolonged chart. Can anyone provide a reference for that? No official Cam ruling that I can find, but all evidence suggests that it should... Michael Prettiman US2002022648 From kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 3 00:51:53 2007 From: kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com (Lance) Date: Wed Jan 3 00:52:04 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions In-Reply-To: <200701030309.l0339iUG016436@nlpi001.sbcis.sbc.com> Message-ID: Invictus Book, next to the Tenure Discipline. Page 207, Invictus "DEFINING A DEMESNE Any vampire can command a domain granted by the Prince or some other influential Kindred. For purposes of Tenure, however, a Demesne is more narrowly defined and harder to obtain. Annunaku call this Demesne a kur, an ancient word that can mean a mountain, the earth in general, a foreign land or the Underworld of the dead. To turn his territory into a proper kur, an Annunaku must dwell within her hoped-for Demesne for at least a year. She must also obtain significant power over the mortals who live or work within her Demesne. Such power may come from respect, fear, dependence or other means, but at least a large fraction of the mortals must believe the vampire has some power over them (though they don't have to know she's a vampire). For instance, an undead gang leader could terrify the mortals in a neighborhood into accepting that they live on his "turf" and they'd better not cross him or any of his gang members. A vampire who poses as a community activist could obtain similar respect because the mortals in her Demesne expect her to speak for them in civic affairs. A vampire who owns a business can certainly claim it as her Demesne: her mortal employees know perfectly well that they work in a building or grounds that belong to someone else. In game terms, a character needs at least three dots in Merits that represent her power in her chosen territory. The business owner could fulfill the requirement through Resources, the community activist through Contacts and City Status and the gang leader through Herd or Retainers, representing his gang of thugs. The Storyteller, however, has final say on whether a character has accumulated enough power to turn a region into a kur and how far the Demesne extends. Finally, the character must prepare at least three "border-stones," or kudurru, to use the ancient Mesopotamian term. Kudurru do not need to be made of stone (though it's traditional): a tree, a metal trash can or a square of sidewalk could work just as well. The kudurru must touch the earth to be mystically effective, though. Borderstones must be spaced as far apart from each other as possible, at the end points of the Demesne. All Annunaku kudurru bear scratched or etched markings that an occultist might understand with a successful Intelligence + Occult roll. These are the names of ancient gods, in a distorted form of cuneiform writing. Preparing a single kudurru requires six successes on an extended Dexterity + Crafts action to construct the stone. Each roll represents one day or night of work and costs a Willpower point. A character can have a number of kudurru up to his permanent Willpower rating (but not less than three may successfully define a kur). If a border-stone is destroyed, the character instantly loses a point of Willpower and instantly knows that his Demesne is under attack. Annunaku usually hide their kudurru or make them difficult to reach or recognize. Aside from defining the area of a Demesne, kudurru are needed for some of the more esoteric powers based on Tenure. Two Demesnes can never overlap. If two vampires with Tenure want to expand into each other's territory, they must cajole, terrify or otherwise persuade the mortals in the rival's kur to accept their mastery instead - or destroy the rival and be done with it." Lance Terpenning US2002023228 / 9709-062 CC FL-038-C ~ http://crimsoncoast.metvamp.com/ AVST Requiem FL-038-C CPI Education Advisor ~ http://camarilla.white-wolf.com/education/ -----Original Message----- From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com]On Behalf Of David Blackwell Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 10:07 PM To: 'Rules discussion and advocacy' Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions I have seen repeated reference to Demesnes being classified as Mid Approval, and I just searched the addendum fairly thoroughly without finding such a reference. Can anyone cite the source for this? Also, I seem to remember it being ruled that Create Demesne used the advanced prolonged chart. Can anyone provide a reference for that? David Blackwell VST Awakening - Kansas City ARST Awakening - North Central US2002021120 "Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." -Colin Powell "The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts DISCLAIMER: All information relating to the Camarilla Sanctioned Chronicle is a work of cooperative fiction. Any similarity to real persons or events is coincidental. This communication relates to a game, and has no factual basis. _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 1/2/2007 From rulesninja at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 00:56:38 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Wed Jan 3 00:56:40 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions In-Reply-To: References: <200701030309.l0339iUG016436@nlpi001.sbcis.sbc.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> On 1/2/07, Lance wrote: > > Invictus Book, next to the Tenure Discipline. > He's talking about the item from the Mage book. =) -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070102/2aafed00/attachment.html From kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 3 01:14:08 2007 From: kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com (Lance) Date: Wed Jan 3 01:14:20 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Blast you damn dirty Mages! Lance Terpenning US2002023228 / 9709-062 CC FL-038-C ~ http://crimsoncoast.metvamp.com/ CPI Education Advisor ~ http://camarilla.white-wolf.com/education/ -----Original Message----- From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com]On Behalf Of m0rtis Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 12:57 AM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions On 1/2/07, Lance wrote: Invictus Book, next to the Tenure Discipline. He's talking about the item from the Mage book. =) -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/66b1fca4/attachment.html From themagus at swbell.net Wed Jan 3 08:55:43 2007 From: themagus at swbell.net (David Blackwell) Date: Wed Jan 3 08:59:22 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Demesne Questions In-Reply-To: <010320070522.1057.459B3D98000932FB000004212200751090020E03079B9B0A9D9F03@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200701031358.l03DwLL8016125@nlpi043.sbcis.sbc.com> -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:23 PM > It's in the addendum, under Places of Power, last line. Quoted below for > convenience... It doesn't come up in a word search because it's spelled > wrong. ;-) > > "Creation of or entering play with a Soul Stone and/or Demense is Mid > Approval." You mean I'm supposed to deduce from it's proximity to the term Soul Stone that the nonsense word Demense is actually a misspelling of the word Demesne? Okay, that is why I couldn't find it. Thanks Michael. >> Also, I seem to remember it being ruled that Create Demesne used the >> advanced prolonged chart. Can anyone provide a reference for that? > > No official Cam ruling that I can find, but all evidence suggests that it should... Okay, I found some references myself. In response to Charlie Vick's question on the subject on the awakening-st list Jessi Hixon posted the following response on April 17, 2006, 12:01 AM The question was "Are we going to use any of the errata for the mage book?" followed by a specific reference to the entry for creating a demesne. The answer: "Yes. That's something that we're working on incorporating, and will have released as soon as possible." Before that, during the USNST office hours on February 22, 2006: [20:23] Can we get an official ruling on using Bill Bridge's forum clarifications while running Awakening? [20:24] That one is mine, under another hat, I believe, David. [20:24] Take it away Mike [20:24] Mr. GSA Magic [20:25] Ok. Here's the deal. Bill Bridges has a semi-continuing FAQ about MtA on the WW forums. Some kind soul compiled this into a Q/A and put it up. [20:26] The Camarilla has taken large portions of that, and is putting it into our own FAQ. This will be up 'soon'. The ANSTs have signed off on the majority of it, but I don't know when the live date is. [20:27] So for right now, it is still local ST decision whether or not to use that FAQ as a reference when making rulings. [20:27] I know, it means inconsistancy. So local storytellers, in the US at least, have carte blanche for using any of the information from the FAQ until and unless the NST policy is changed or a Camarilla FAQ is released. So if your venue storyteller allows it, you can create a permanent demesne in the US using the 5 dot ritual, because Bill Bridges FAQ says it was intended to use the advanced prolongation chart for duration. We need to get the spelling corrected in the Addendum. I'm sure others are overlooking the requirement especially if they are using the text search feature to confirm that demesne's aren't mentioned in the mage rules. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people have missed this one. David Blackwell VST Awakening - Kansas City ARST Awakening - North Central US2002021120 "Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." -Colin Powell "The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts DISCLAIMER: All information relating to the Camarilla Sanctioned Chronicle is a work of cooperative fiction. Any similarity to real persons or events is coincidental. This communication relates to a game, and has no factual basis. From mark at herne.net Wed Jan 3 13:37:31 2007 From: mark at herne.net (Mark) Date: Wed Jan 3 13:37:36 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In the addendum under Merit NPC's it states that supernatural retainers have to be a 5 dot retainer. Does that same thinking extend to supernatural allies? do they need to be 5 dot allies as well? Thanks, Mark ___________________________________________________ Mark Adams US2005116858 DC: CA-057-D - San Diego AVST: Requiem - San Diego Member Advocate: Southern California From rulesninja at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 13:39:59 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Wed Jan 3 13:40:03 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a supernatural NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need to do it in Retainer, or get Global approval. On 1/3/07, Mark wrote: > > In the addendum under Merit NPC's it states that supernatural > retainers have to be a 5 dot retainer. Does that same thinking > extend to supernatural allies? do they need to be 5 dot allies as well? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > ___________________________________________________ > Mark Adams > US2005116858 > DC: CA-057-D - San Diego > AVST: Requiem - San Diego > Member Advocate: Southern California > > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/3764b6f0/attachment.html From ben.cam at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 13:56:17 2007 From: ben.cam at gmail.com (Ben Rosenblum) Date: Wed Jan 3 13:56:19 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a supernatural > NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need to do it in Retainer, > or get Global approval. The addendum doesn't say anything about Supernatural Allies, right? That means they are Low approval, not Top. This is even supported by the addendum when it says under section 1.1.4.4: "Ghoul Retainers that undergo Metamorphosis may become Allies or Contacts and cannot remain Retainers." -- Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 From 1k0n at jyhad.net Wed Jan 3 13:58:51 2007 From: 1k0n at jyhad.net (1k0n@jyhad.net) Date: Wed Jan 3 13:59:23 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2035.81.98.253.81.1167850731.squirrel@jyhad.net> > On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: >> Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a >> supernatural >> NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need to do it in >> Retainer, >> or get Global approval. > > The addendum doesn't say anything about Supernatural Allies, right? > > That means they are Low approval, not Top. It doesn't mention Dragon retainers. Are they Low too? Jason Walter uk9506-546 From rulesninja at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 14:06:03 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:06:07 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Ben Rosenblum wrote: > > On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > > Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a > supernatural > > NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need to do it in > Retainer, > > or get Global approval. > > The addendum doesn't say anything about Supernatural Allies, right? > > That means they are Low approval, not Top. It's a new mechanic (it's not mentioned in the book), it's Global. This is even supported by the addendum when it says under section 1.1.4.4: > > "Ghoul Retainers that undergo Metamorphosis may become Allies or > Contacts and cannot remain Retainers." That's a single exception. -- > Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/90dccc23/attachment.html From ben.cam at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 14:11:21 2007 From: ben.cam at gmail.com (Ben Rosenblum) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:11:23 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57475edd0701031111t24eff710g43372e56ccd52fc7@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > It's a new mechanic (it's not mentioned in the book), it's Global. > It's not a new mechanic. Under the existing rules, Storytellers can create NPCs that are supernatural. Allies are NPCs under Storyteller control. Hence, they can be supernatural. It is the supernatural Retainers being Top approval that is the exception, not everything else. -- Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 From KTERPENNING at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 3 14:12:37 2007 From: KTERPENNING at tampabay.rr.com (KTERPENNING@tampabay.rr.com) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:12:40 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmmm... Good point. That would even lead me to think that a player could justify a Vampiric Ally by saying it his Childe (as it was a ghoul retainer before being embraced.). CAUTION: Prepare for some abuse when this becomes more popular. Lance Terpenning US2002023228 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Rosenblum Date: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 2:06 pm Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers To: Rules discussion and advocacy > On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > > Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a > supernatural> NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need > to do it in Retainer, > > or get Global approval. > > The addendum doesn't say anything about Supernatural Allies, right? > > That means they are Low approval, not Top. > > This is even supported by the addendum when it says under section > 1.1.4.4: > "Ghoul Retainers that undergo Metamorphosis may become Allies or > Contacts and cannot remain Retainers." > > -- > Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/67dab471/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 14:12:47 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:12:50 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701031111t24eff710g43372e56ccd52fc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031111t24eff710g43372e56ccd52fc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701031112j1159360ah31cb00e6166ea5d3@mail.gmail.com> I disagree with you, but I'm not going to go back and forth on it today. =) On 1/3/07, Ben Rosenblum wrote: > > On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > > It's a new mechanic (it's not mentioned in the book), it's Global. > > > > It's not a new mechanic. > > Under the existing rules, Storytellers can create NPCs that are > supernatural. > > Allies are NPCs under Storyteller control. Hence, they can be > supernatural. > > It is the supernatural Retainers being Top approval that is the > exception, not everything else. > > -- > Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/411bbecd/attachment-0001.html From ben.cam at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 14:13:54 2007 From: ben.cam at gmail.com (Ben Rosenblum) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:13:56 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701031112j1159360ah31cb00e6166ea5d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031111t24eff710g43372e56ccd52fc7@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031112j1159360ah31cb00e6166ea5d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57475edd0701031113h2219b2au3375a7d366c43caf@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > I disagree with you, but I'm not going to go back and forth on it today. =) > Maybe tomorrow, then? ;-) -- Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 From KTERPENNING at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 3 14:20:43 2007 From: KTERPENNING at tampabay.rr.com (KTERPENNING@tampabay.rr.com) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:20:46 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701022156u40e00de2h29a1b6e8b0c4203@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701031056k1801e0fcq9affd9f1ae94cef1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701031106x13020bedj558f2c4ccc3408e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So the clever player would simply find a suitable ghoul for 2 XP. And make it their Retainer thus. Afterwhich, Embracing it at 1 WP to make it a Supernatural Ally. At ST Discretion, this action could happen during the characters background, and thus not costing the WP. This would still apply as a single exception. As long as the player understands the Ally is under ST control, and the ST actually makes sure that the Ally acts approptiately (i.e. not a brainwashed vampire), this is workable under these specefic guidlines. Lance Terpenning US2002023228 ----- Original Message ----- From: m0rtis Date: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers To: Rules discussion and advocacy > On 1/3/07, Ben Rosenblum wrote: > > > > On 1/3/07, m0rtis wrote: > > > Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a > > supernatural > > > NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need to do it in > > Retainer, > > > or get Global approval. > > > > The addendum doesn't say anything about Supernatural Allies, right? > > > > That means they are Low approval, not Top. > > > It's a new mechanic (it's not mentioned in the book), it's Global. > > This is even supported by the addendum when it says under section > 1.1.4.4:> > > "Ghoul Retainers that undergo Metamorphosis may become Allies or > > Contacts and cannot remain Retainers." > > > That's a single exception. > > -- > > Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 > > _______________________________________________ > > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > > > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > Camarilla Wiki Community: > http://www.cam-wiki.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/b1d9c07a/attachment.html From OrsiniJ at missouri.edu Wed Jan 3 14:23:47 2007 From: OrsiniJ at missouri.edu (Orsini, Jessica L.) Date: Wed Jan 3 14:23:45 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701031039ib4fb04atb1193efa00c30b53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Herein lies the part where I wish - oh, how I wish - that the Powers That Be would sanction the Chronicler's Guide... because therein, on page 68, is the Friends merit, which is spot-on perfect for a single-person ally (rather than having influence within a group, which is what the Allies merit is meant to represent). Jessica Orsini US2006037576 aDST/aVST-Requiem/aVST-Forsaken, MO-017-D The voice of: Sarah "Hope" O'Neally (Crone 2, Gangrel 2) Rebecca Washington (Ordo Dracul 1, Daeva 1, City (Columbia MO) 1) Hanna Forester (Watched 4) ________________________________ From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com] On Behalf Of m0rtis Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 12:40 PM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers Supernatural Allies mechanically do not exist. If you want a supernatural NPC who represents one of your merits, you will need to do it in Retainer, or get Global approval. On 1/3/07, Mark wrote: In the addendum under Merit NPC's it states that supernatural retainers have to be a 5 dot retainer. Does that same thinking extend to supernatural allies? do they need to be 5 dot allies as well? Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/3fd907f7/attachment.html From jjcravens at comcast.net Wed Jan 3 16:17:38 2007 From: jjcravens at comcast.net (Justin Cravens) Date: Wed Jan 3 16:17:51 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002f01c72f7c$98f0b330$6401a8c0@jjcserver> lol, how sad is that.. for us to have friends.. we have to have a merit!? that's just too funny... sorry, I just couldn't resist :) Justin Cravens US2002096648 _____ From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com] On Behalf Of Orsini, Jessica L. Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:24 PM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: RE: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Allies vs. Retainers Herein lies the part where I wish - oh, how I wish - that the Powers That Be would sanction the Chronicler's Guide... because therein, on page 68, is the Friends merit, which is spot-on perfect for a single-person ally (rather than having influence within a group, which is what the Allies merit is meant to represent). Jessica Orsini US2006037576 aDST/aVST-Requiem/aVST-Forsaken, MO-017-D The voice of: Sarah "Hope" O'Neally (Crone 2, Gangrel 2) Rebecca Washington (Ordo Dracul 1, Daeva 1, City (Columbia MO) 1) Hanna Forester (Watched 4) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 1/2/2007 2:58 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070103/eaa708af/attachment.html From rpg at jononoble.com Thu Jan 4 22:50:23 2007 From: rpg at jononoble.com (Jon O. Noble) Date: Thu Jan 4 22:50:25 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution Message-ID: <10433618.757981167969023031.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Can we add post trimming to the goals of the list? :) -- ``Jon O. Noble ``US2003041492 ``ADC AL-009-D ``SEARC - Arbitration & Independent Chapters ~ Acting Archbishop Rui Romero Fern?ndez From argynt at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:04:43 2007 From: argynt at hotmail.com (James Leavings) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:04:50 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <10433618.757981167969023031.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the thread, and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this email with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it can't if it isn't there. James Leavings US2005106684 >From: "Jon O. Noble" >Reply-To: Rules discussion and advocacy > >To: >Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:50:23 -0500 > >Can we add post trimming to the goals of the list? :) > >-- >``Jon O. Noble >``US2003041492 >``ADC AL-009-D >``SEARC - Arbitration & Independent Chapters >~ Acting Archbishop Rui Romero Fernández >_______________________________________________ >Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list >Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com >http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy _________________________________________________________________ Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview From rulesninja at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:07:26 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:07:29 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: References: <10433618.757981167969023031.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701042007q688b5115wa1f1b86484b089ad@mail.gmail.com> Archives. Large amounts of quoted text for no reason is bad, mmkay? =) On 1/4/07, James Leavings wrote: > > No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the thread, > and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this email > with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. > Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it > can't > if it isn't there. > > James Leavings > US2005106684 > > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/90dcecb1/attachment-0001.html From mithrascod at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 23:09:34 2007 From: mithrascod at yahoo.com (Michael Gearman) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:08:43 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: References: <10433618.757981167969023031.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070104200859.02f75400@pop.mail.yahoo.com> At 08:04 PM 1/4/2007, you wrote: >No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the thread, >and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this email >with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. >Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it >can't if it isn't there. Yeah, but you don't have to include the entire header, nor the post five steps back. I think that's what he was referring to. -- Mike Gearman US Conspirator #2002021011 US ANST Rules Warning: Radioactive Emissions - Exposure can be fatal. Corrosive Agents - Do not pour on hands. High Voltage - Do NOT lick wires (this means you). From argynt at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:10:48 2007 From: argynt at hotmail.com (James Leavings) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:10:52 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701042007q688b5115wa1f1b86484b089ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have no way to know what a reply is TO, unless the thing the reply is to is attached. Often, context is of no value, as there 10, 20, 30 replies since I left the house earlier. The contention that people not "trimming" posts is rude is ridiculous. It's text. What I am being told here is that anyone not using the "correct" email, should leave the list because they don't have the right to know what is going on. I reject that entirely. James Leavings US2005106684 >From: m0rtis >Reply-To: Rules discussion and advocacy > >To: "Rules discussion and advocacy" > >Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:07:26 -0600 > >Archives. Large amounts of quoted text for no reason is bad, mmkay? =) > >On 1/4/07, James Leavings wrote: >> >>No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the thread, >>and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this email >>with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. >>Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it >>can't >>if it isn't there. >> >>James Leavings >>US2005106684 >> >> > >-- >Dan Wright - US2002021042 >Camarilla Wiki Community: >http://www.cam-wiki.org >_______________________________________________ >Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list >Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com >http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 From argynt at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:13:20 2007 From: argynt at hotmail.com (James Leavings) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:13:27 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20070104200859.02f75400@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, I actually want to see the history of the conversation in the post, personally. But regardless of that, I would rather not see any more demands for post trimming. Let people do so, or not do so as they feel is correct or necesary. James Leavings US2005106684 >From: Michael Gearman >Reply-To: Rules discussion and advocacy > >To: Rules discussion and advocacy > >Subject: RE: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:09:34 -0800 > >At 08:04 PM 1/4/2007, you wrote: >>No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the thread, >>and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this email >>with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. >>Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it >>can't if it isn't there. > >Yeah, but you don't have to include the entire header, >nor the post five steps back. > >I think that's what he was referring to. > > >-- >Mike Gearman >US Conspirator #2002021011 >US ANST Rules > >Warning: >Radioactive Emissions - Exposure can be fatal. >Corrosive Agents - Do not pour on hands. >High Voltage - Do NOT lick wires (this means you). > > >_______________________________________________ >Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list >Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com >http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy _________________________________________________________________ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701 From ebabin at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 4 23:19:48 2007 From: ebabin at sbcglobal.net (Erin Babin) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:19:51 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070105041948.37021.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I dont really think that anyone here is saying that you cant quote the relevent text... They just dont want all the parts that arent relevent to whats being said. Clip what you dont need, thats all... If someone's only responding to a small section of something in another email, there isnt really a need for the entire email to be included.... Just an opinion, Erin Babin US2003071789 DC Bitter Sanctuary Ca-064-D James Leavings wrote: Well, I actually want to see the history of the conversation in the post, personally. But regardless of that, I would rather not see any more demands for post trimming. Let people do so, or not do so as they feel is correct or necesary. James Leavings US2005106684 >From: Michael Gearman >Reply-To: Rules discussion and advocacy > >To: Rules discussion and advocacy > >Subject: RE: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:09:34 -0800 > >At 08:04 PM 1/4/2007, you wrote: >>No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the thread, >>and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this email >>with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. >>Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it >>can't if it isn't there. > >Yeah, but you don't have to include the entire header, >nor the post five steps back. > >I think that's what he was referring to. > > >-- >Mike Gearman >US Conspirator #2002021011 >US ANST Rules > >Warning: >Radioactive Emissions - Exposure can be fatal. >Corrosive Agents - Do not pour on hands. >High Voltage - Do NOT lick wires (this means you). > > >_______________________________________________ >Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list >Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com >http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy _________________________________________________________________ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701 _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/bb04172f/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:22:01 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:22:04 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: References: <49ffd2240701042007q688b5115wa1f1b86484b089ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701042022l4fa7916ah56150f2c77aafd65@mail.gmail.com> It is rude, as there are many people still on dialup, and it makes for checking mail a very slow experience. Quoting relevant text is fine. But we don't need every post in the conversation quoted below. We have archives for keeping track of list posts if you're having a hard time keeping up. On 1/4/07, James Leavings wrote: > > I have no way to know what a reply is TO, unless the thing the reply is to > is attached. Often, context is of no value, as there 10, 20, 30 replies > since I left the house earlier. The contention that people not "trimming" > posts is rude is ridiculous. It's text. What I am being told here is that > anyone not using the "correct" email, should leave the list because they > don't have the right to know what is going on. I reject that entirely. > > James Leavings > US2005106684 > > > >From: m0rtis > >Reply-To: Rules discussion and advocacy > > > >To: "Rules discussion and advocacy" > > > >Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution > >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:07:26 -0600 > > > >Archives. Large amounts of quoted text for no reason is bad, mmkay? =) > > > >On 1/4/07, James Leavings wrote: > >> > >>No. I *want* to see the conversation, who said what to whom in the > thread, > >>and I am not interested in switching emails to do it. I've had this > email > >>with hotmail for 13 years, I am not going to start using a new one now. > >>Those who don't want to see it, can not look. Those who want to see it > >>can't > >>if it isn't there. > >> > >>James Leavings > >>US2005106684 > >> > >> > > > >-- > >Dan Wright - US2002021042 > >Camarilla Wiki Community: > >http://www.cam-wiki.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > >Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > >http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/a38fafe0/attachment.html From christopherbuser at comcast.net Thu Jan 4 23:22:56 2007 From: christopherbuser at comcast.net (Christopher Buser) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:22:47 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution References: Message-ID: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> >I have no way to know what a reply is TO, unless the thing the reply is to >is attached. Often, context is of no value, as there 10, 20, 30 replies >since I left the house earlier. The contention that people not "trimming" >posts is rude is ridiculous. It's text. What I am being told here is that >anyone not using the "correct" email, should leave the list because they >don't have the right to know what is going on. I reject that entirely. Then unsubscribe. It is common courtesy to only quote the relevant text on *all* cammail.white-wolf.com lists. If the List Moderator says "Trim your posts", then trim your posts. chris buser us2002021013 usno From rulesninja at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:26:13 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:26:15 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> References: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701042026l565e197ds61e27ec51b032ab5@mail.gmail.com> List policies are located here: http://lists.sangredelsol.com/list-policies/ (http://camarilla.white-wolf.com/Lists forwards to that site, for reference) You will notice the following policy: Trim Your Quotes Often, a discussion on these mailing lists can get rather lengthy. When replying to a message, make sure that you quote only the relevant portions of the previous text. More importantly, do this *in context*. Rather than putting your reply at the top and then quoting a long passage below, split the quote up into multiple portions, replying to each segment in turn. This helps tremendously in allowing everyone to follow along with what can frequently be a tremendous amount of content. *Do not quote the entire post* unless it is quite short. Nobody likes to get a message with 15kb of quoted text and one line of "Me too!". On 1/4/07, Christopher Buser wrote: > > > > >I have no way to know what a reply is TO, unless the thing the reply is > to > >is attached. Often, context is of no value, as there 10, 20, 30 replies > >since I left the house earlier. The contention that people not "trimming" > >posts is rude is ridiculous. It's text. What I am being told here is > that > >anyone not using the "correct" email, should leave the list because they > >don't have the right to know what is going on. I reject that entirely. > > Then unsubscribe. > > It is common courtesy to only quote the relevant text on *all* > cammail.white-wolf.com lists. > > If the List Moderator says "Trim your posts", then trim your posts. > > chris buser > us2002021013 > usno > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/eff0d3d1/attachment.html From kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com Thu Jan 4 23:28:47 2007 From: kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com (Lance) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:28:59 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701042022l4fa7916ah56150f2c77aafd65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What is this "Dial Up" you speak of? Is it tasty? Lance Terpenning US2002023228 / 9709-062 CC FL-038-C ~ http://crimsoncoast.metvamp.com/ CPI Education Advisor ~ http://camarilla.white-wolf.com/education/ -----Original Message----- From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com]On Behalf Of m0rtis Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:22 PM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution It is rude, as there are many people still on dialup, and it makes for checking mail a very slow experience. Quoting relevant text is fine. But we don't need every post in the conversation quoted below. We have archives for keeping track of list posts if you're having a hard time keeping up. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/ff5e0e8b/attachment.html From mithrascod at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 00:10:09 2007 From: mithrascod at yahoo.com (Michael Gearman) Date: Fri Jan 5 00:09:17 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: References: <49ffd2240701042022l4fa7916ah56150f2c77aafd65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070104210952.0362eed8@pop.mail.yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/143e1de3/attachment.html From rpg at jononoble.com Fri Jan 5 01:05:33 2007 From: rpg at jononoble.com (Jon O. Noble) Date: Fri Jan 5 01:05:35 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Re: New Year's Resolution Message-ID: <9152263.2234051167977133664.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Quoting relevant parts of a thread is not a bad thing, but trimming your posts is not just for gmail users. As Dan said, it is right for archival purposes, as well as a curtesy to people on dialup. Another big factor is for those who get the lists in digest mode. When someone is not trimming their replies down to the relevant material -- and 5 posts, headers, signatires, et cetera, are all quoted in every email -- then each digest only contains one or two emails, which defeats the purpose of digests for those who wish to not have their inboxes flooded, and do not use "newer" email services either. Either way, approaching any matter with an attitude of "to heck with you people, my way is the right way, and I could care less what everyone else says" is never very productive. -- ``Jon O. Noble ``US2003041492 ``ADC AL-009-D ``SEARC - Arbitration & Independent Chapters ~ Acting Archbishop Rui Romero Fern?ndez From dev_null at ryusenkai.org Fri Jan 5 01:14:04 2007 From: dev_null at ryusenkai.org (Zarli Win) Date: Fri Jan 5 01:14:06 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Re: New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <9152263.2234051167977133664.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> References: <9152263.2234051167977133664.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <774d2ff0701042214j282c603dn1472b9d4f899f552@mail.gmail.com> To add to it, if you read the relevant parts of a post, you should be able to tie it all together... if yo want to know what all 20 posts were, read all 20 posts. -- Zarli Win US2004071604 aDST Admin: Hawaii, Member Advocate Hawaii "668! The Neighbor of the Beast!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070104/3ff0f28e/attachment.html From ben.cam at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:02:32 2007 From: ben.cam at gmail.com (Ben Rosenblum) Date: Fri Jan 5 04:03:06 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701042026l565e197ds61e27ec51b032ab5@mail.gmail.com> References: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> <49ffd2240701042026l565e197ds61e27ec51b032ab5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57475edd0701050102k5505b2ccoad14775f719ddd4d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, m0rtis wrote: > List policies are located here: > http://lists.sangredelsol.com/list-policies/ > Thanks, Dan :) It's also at the easy to remember http://lists.camarilla.us. In response to "No": if you participate on any officially sanctioned Camarilla Global Mailing Lists, you need to read through the policy website and understand the rules for participating. They're not optional, and they exist to make this forum of communication work better for everyone. -- Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116, CDPM Lists, http://lists.camarilla.us From cam.agent at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:13:03 2007 From: cam.agent at gmail.com (Agent Camarilla) Date: Fri Jan 5 04:13:23 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701050102k5505b2ccoad14775f719ddd4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> <49ffd2240701042026l565e197ds61e27ec51b032ab5@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701050102k5505b2ccoad14775f719ddd4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <69f18e970701050113y1805a63bp1de01e215b6a5ab1@mail.gmail.com> So, are we gonna start enforcing post trimming? If so how. also, banhammer -------------------------------------- Ryan Martin US2006047750 From ben.cam at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:46:23 2007 From: ben.cam at gmail.com (Ben Rosenblum) Date: Fri Jan 5 04:46:27 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <69f18e970701050113y1805a63bp1de01e215b6a5ab1@mail.gmail.com> References: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> <49ffd2240701042026l565e197ds61e27ec51b032ab5@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701050102k5505b2ccoad14775f719ddd4d@mail.gmail.com> <69f18e970701050113y1805a63bp1de01e215b6a5ab1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57475edd0701050146m1a70140bp689568421897adf9@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Agent Camarilla wrote: > So, are we gonna start enforcing post trimming? If so how. > I'll leave that up to this list's moderator. Generally, moderation is not visible to the list at large; warnings are issued in private, as are suspensions and post moderations. -- Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 From cam.agent at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 09:54:26 2007 From: cam.agent at gmail.com (Agent Camarilla) Date: Fri Jan 5 09:54:27 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701050146m1a70140bp689568421897adf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <038101c73081$2d6de640$6501a8c0@Precious> <49ffd2240701042026l565e197ds61e27ec51b032ab5@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701050102k5505b2ccoad14775f719ddd4d@mail.gmail.com> <69f18e970701050113y1805a63bp1de01e215b6a5ab1@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701050146m1a70140bp689568421897adf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <69f18e970701050654k5fa3d565g966977e4713b68ff@mail.gmail.com> But then how ever do the new users get a chance to learn from the public-veiwable mistakes of their predecessors (with notes by admins on what was done wrong). tsk tsk, that's SO 1990's :) On 1/5/07, Ben Rosenblum wrote: > On 1/5/07, Agent Camarilla wrote: > > So, are we gonna start enforcing post trimming? If so how. > > > > I'll leave that up to this list's moderator. > > Generally, moderation is not visible to the list at large; warnings > are issued in private, as are suspensions and post moderations. > > -- > Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- -------------------------------------- Ryan Martin US2006047750 From swiftone at swiftone.org Fri Jan 5 10:22:47 2007 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Fri Jan 5 10:22:49 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: References: <49ffd2240701042007q688b5115wa1f1b86484b089ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960701050722s345c82fchb8951bf96b0f4cb@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, James Leavings wrote: > I have no way to know what a reply is TO, unless the thing the reply is to > is attached. You say you do not wish to switch email clients. Such is your choice, but your choice means we do not have to feel pity for the restrictions you have taken on. "threading" email is a concept almost as old as the medium itself. > The contention that people not "trimming" > posts is rude is ridiculous. It's text. What I am being told here is that > anyone not using the "correct" email, should leave the list because they > don't have the right to know what is going on. I reject that entirely. A very interesting opinion. However, tens of thousands of internet users with decades of more experience than you agree that properly trimmed AND quoted posts are the most accurate way to convey a conversation. I don't accept your rejection. Seriously folks, these concepts aren't being made up by list admins that have no idea what they are talking about. These came about because a lot of people did a lot of talking and soon learned who had a lot of clear conversations and who kept getting misunderstood. "context" is very important, and the answer isn't to quote EVERYTHING. You need to learn to give your context. It's a skill, just like every other form of communication. Concerns about dial up and screen-scrolling and other matters are just additional concerns. Until people accept the responsibility involved in participating in a huge online conversation, we will remain in perpetual September. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September) -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From not.dst at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 10:29:11 2007 From: not.dst at gmail.com (Rick Munden) Date: Fri Jan 5 10:29:14 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution Message-ID: <9556799b0701050729m11c2d8dawe35d0ca7cec2a316@mail.gmail.com> Those of us who are set to Digest have to wade through a lot of useless text because of this. Please be considerate of others, trim your posts. -- Rick Munden US2002021219 DST, Nomads of Twilight (AZ-009-D) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070105/aba43c0c/attachment.html From lookinginsetx1977 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 11:29:00 2007 From: lookinginsetx1977 at gmail.com (Joseph) Date: Fri Jan 5 11:29:02 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <9556799b0701050729m11c2d8dawe35d0ca7cec2a316@mail.gmail.com> References: <9556799b0701050729m11c2d8dawe35d0ca7cec2a316@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <789920170701050829m48ca0f28x273e044fe4efdd37@mail.gmail.com> Gmail is always good for keeping track of conversations. Joseph Lavergne CAM US2006027334 Silent Redemption, TX-064-D Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb about. Jesus Saves, all the rest of you take full damage... Find out something interesting about YOUR day at... http://library.thinkquest.org/2886/ Woody Allen - "If my films make one more person miserable, I'll feel I have done my job." From rulesninja at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 11:32:00 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Fri Jan 5 11:32:03 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <789920170701050829m48ca0f28x273e044fe4efdd37@mail.gmail.com> References: <9556799b0701050729m11c2d8dawe35d0ca7cec2a316@mail.gmail.com> <789920170701050829m48ca0f28x273e044fe4efdd37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701050832y389ea913q66527bd87aff1e11@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Joseph wrote: > > Gmail is always good for keeping track of conversations. To be fair, he did say he didnt want to change email addresses. -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070105/077e8330/attachment.html From lookinginsetx1977 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 11:38:01 2007 From: lookinginsetx1977 at gmail.com (Joseph) Date: Fri Jan 5 11:38:03 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701050832y389ea913q66527bd87aff1e11@mail.gmail.com> References: <9556799b0701050729m11c2d8dawe35d0ca7cec2a316@mail.gmail.com> <789920170701050829m48ca0f28x273e044fe4efdd37@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701050832y389ea913q66527bd87aff1e11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <789920170701050838k4c367f7fi3fab14fdc39e6480@mail.gmail.com> well, I am just saying, for those that like to have a running list of emails, Gmail is good. Just making a comment there. No offense I hope. Joseph Lavergne CAM US2006027334 Silent Redemption, TX-064-D Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb about. Jesus Saves, all the rest of you take full damage... Find out something interesting about YOUR day at... http://library.thinkquest.org/2886/ Woody Allen - "If my films make one more person miserable, I'll feel I have done my job." From srblack1167 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 12:04:15 2007 From: srblack1167 at yahoo.com (Steven R. Black II) Date: Fri Jan 5 12:04:18 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] New Year's Resolution In-Reply-To: <69f18e970701050113y1805a63bp1de01e215b6a5ab1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070105170415.26197.qmail@web52114.mail.yahoo.com> --- Agent Camarilla wrote: > So, are we gonna start enforcing post trimming? If so how. Mods: Correct me if I'm wrong (or confirm if I'm right). Moderators can set filters to block member's posts if they don't follow the rules of a list. This list needs to have this happen, with members getting warnings of breaking the rules more often than other lists. This list should be a resource for players, not a chat room of useless e-mails that don't improve on the covnersation. Sincerly, Steven Black US2004092130 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From scrumper at earthling.net Sat Jan 6 14:31:01 2007 From: scrumper at earthling.net (Cameron) Date: Sat Jan 6 14:31:05 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages Message-ID: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, I've been working under the perception that, once a full three-stage Vinculum is established, no partial Vinculum is possible. It seems this view is not universally held, however, so I've started digging to see if there is a definitive answer to how this should be handled. What I've found so far is: MET:R page 225: No one, however, can be thrall to more than one regnant. A Vinculum to one Kindred precludes the character becoming bound to another vampire, as long as the regnant still exists. MET:R page 226: A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of Kindred. Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other partial Vinculums vanish. Additionally, text on MET:R page 43, regarding coteries, implies that it is impossible to use Vinculums to bind all members directly to each other: Some very rare coteries attempt to overcome the inevitable growth of mistrust between members by engaging in a web of Vinculums. Reciprocal bonds wouldn't work to hold a coterie together; rather, it would engender loyalty between pairs. Instead, these coteries engage in a practice that some Kindred youth have rather crudely dubbed a "circle jerk." That is, one neonate bonds herself to another, who bonds himself to a third, who bonds himself to a fourth, who in turn bonds herself back to the ?rst. The amount of trust required to enter into such an arrangement is incalculable, and the results are inevitably painful for those involved, as they must spend much of their time watching the object of their affections fawn over someone else. Many coteries that attempt this process eventually tear themselves apart out of obsession and petty jealousy. Yet MET:R page 226 states: The second drink generates a stronger connection between the two Kindred, quite apart from potential Vitae addiction. The imbibing character considers the blood's donor an important ?gure in his unlife, though he is hardly enslaved. The character's interest might take the form of affection, trust, admiration or protectiveness, depending on the character's personality. The Storyteller might ask the character's player to attempt a Resolve + Composure draw if the character tries to attack the nascent regnant, or seriously harm her interests. Which would seem to imply that a two-stage Vinculum, if possible, would indeed help make a group more cohesive, yet it is not mentioned in the section on coteries. From all this, I would still lean toward not allowing partial Vinculums once a full Vinculum is formed. Though I know there are others who run it differently. Does anyone have a solid ruling on this? Or, failing that, what do you all think? Cameron Oltmann CA200308007 DST CND011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/87940157/attachment-0001.html From cobraprime at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:41:21 2007 From: cobraprime at gmail.com (Robert Paul) Date: Sat Jan 6 14:41:25 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The line you quoted creates a definitive ruling: MET:R page 226: A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of Kindred. Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other partial Vinculums vanish. Once you have a third stage bond in effect, no other bonds are possible. -ROb Paul US2002023582 On 1/6/07, Cameron wrote: > > Hey all, > > I've been working under the perception that, once a full three-stage > Vinculum is established, no partial Vinculum is possible. It seems this > view is not universally held, however, so I've started digging to see if > there is a definitive answer to how this should be handled. What I've found > so far is: > > MET:R page 225: > No one, however, can be thrall to more than one regnant. A Vinculum to one > Kindred precludes the character becoming bound to another vampire, as long > as the regnant still exists. > > MET:R page 226: > A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of Kindred. > Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other partial > Vinculums vanish. > > Additionally, text on MET:R page 43, regarding coteries, implies that it > is impossible to use Vinculums to bind all members directly to each other: > Some very rare coteries attempt to overcome the inevitable growth of > mistrust between members by engaging in a web of Vinculums. Reciprocal bonds > wouldn't work to hold a coterie together; rather, it would engender loyalty > between pairs. Instead, these coteries engage in a practice that some > Kindred youth have rather crudely dubbed a "circle jerk." That is, one > neonate bonds herself to another, who bonds himself to a third, who bonds > himself to a fourth, who in turn bonds herself back to the ?rst. The amount > of trust required to enter into such an arrangement is incalculable, and the > results are inevitably painful for those involved, as they must spend much > of their time watching the object of their affections fawn over someone > else. > Many coteries that attempt this process eventually tear themselves apart > out of obsession and petty jealousy. > > Yet MET:R page 226 states: > The second drink generates a stronger connection between the two Kindred, > quite apart from potential Vitae addiction. The imbibing character considers > the blood's donor an important ?gure in his unlife, though he is hardly > enslaved. The character's interest might take the form of affection, trust, > admiration or protectiveness, depending on the character's personality. The > Storyteller might ask the character's player to attempt a Resolve + > Composure draw if the character tries to attack the nascent regnant, or > seriously harm her interests. > > Which would seem to imply that a two-stage Vinculum, if possible, would > indeed help make a group more cohesive, yet it is not mentioned in the > section on coteries. > > From all this, I would still lean toward not allowing partial Vinculums > once a full Vinculum is formed. Though I know there are others who run it > differently. > > Does anyone have a solid ruling on this? Or, failing that, what do you > all think? > > Cameron Oltmann > CA200308007 > DST CND011 > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/4fc5c50a/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:45:09 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sat Jan 6 14:45:12 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> Rob, That just says that once a full viniculum is established, the others disappear. It does not say that no new partials can be made. On 1/6/07, Robert Paul wrote: > > The line you quoted creates a definitive ruling: > > MET:R page 226: > A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of Kindred. > Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other partial > Vinculums vanish. > > Once you have a third stage bond in effect, no other bonds are possible. > > -ROb Paul > US2002023582 > > On 1/6/07, Cameron wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > I've been working under the perception that, once a full three-stage > > Vinculum is established, no partial Vinculum is possible. It seems this > > view is not universally held, however, so I've started digging to see if > > there is a definitive answer to how this should be handled. What I've found > > so far is: > > > > MET:R page 225: > > No one, however, can be thrall to more than one regnant. A Vinculum to > > one Kindred precludes the character becoming bound to another vampire, as > > long as the regnant still exists. > > > > MET:R page 226: > > A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of Kindred. > > Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other partial > > Vinculums vanish. > > > > Additionally, text on MET:R page 43, regarding coteries, implies that it > > is impossible to use Vinculums to bind all members directly to each other: > > Some very rare coteries attempt to overcome the inevitable growth of > > mistrust between members by engaging in a web of Vinculums. Reciprocal bonds > > wouldn't work to hold a coterie together; rather, it would engender loyalty > > between pairs. Instead, these coteries engage in a practice that some > > Kindred youth have rather crudely dubbed a "circle jerk." That is, one > > neonate bonds herself to another, who bonds himself to a third, who bonds > > himself to a fourth, who in turn bonds herself back to the ?rst. The amount > > of trust required to enter into such an arrangement is incalculable, and the > > results are inevitably painful for those involved, as they must spend much > > of their time watching the object of their affections fawn over someone > > else. > > Many coteries that attempt this process eventually tear themselves apart > > out of obsession and petty jealousy. > > > > Yet MET:R page 226 states: > > The second drink generates a stronger connection between the two > > Kindred, quite apart from potential Vitae addiction. The imbibing character > > considers the blood's donor an important ?gure in his unlife, though he is > > hardly enslaved. The character's interest might take the form of affection, > > trust, admiration or protectiveness, depending on the character's > > personality. The Storyteller might ask the character's player to attempt a > > Resolve + Composure draw if the character tries to attack the nascent > > regnant, or seriously harm her interests. > > > > Which would seem to imply that a two-stage Vinculum, if possible, would > > indeed help make a group more cohesive, yet it is not mentioned in the > > section on coteries. > > > > From all this, I would still lean toward not allowing partial Vinculums > > once a full Vinculum is formed. Though I know there are others who run it > > differently. > > > > Does anyone have a solid ruling on this? Or, failing that, what do you > > all think? > > > > Cameron Oltmann > > CA200308007 > > DST CND011 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/1d1d73fe/attachment.html From cobraprime at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:50:42 2007 From: cobraprime at gmail.com (Robert Paul) Date: Sat Jan 6 14:50:45 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think you're stretching the letter.. the intent is pretty clear. That intent isn't countered in any of the other passages quoted.. or anywhere else I've seen. -ROb US2002023582 On 1/6/07, m0rtis wrote: > > Rob, > > That just says that once a full viniculum is established, the others > disappear. It does not say that no new partials can be made. > > On 1/6/07, Robert Paul wrote: > > > The line you quoted creates a definitive ruling: > > > > MET:R page 226: > > A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of Kindred. > > Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other partial > > Vinculums vanish. > > > > Once you have a third stage bond in effect, no other bonds are possible. > > > > > > -ROb Paul > > US2002023582 > > > > On 1/6/07, Cameron < scrumper@earthling.net> wrote: > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > I've been working under the perception that, once a full three-stage > > > Vinculum is established, no partial Vinculum is possible. It seems this > > > view is not universally held, however, so I've started digging to see if > > > there is a definitive answer to how this should be handled. What I've found > > > so far is: > > > > > > MET:R page 225: > > > No one, however, can be thrall to more than one regnant. A Vinculum to > > > one Kindred precludes the character becoming bound to another vampire, as > > > long as the regnant still exists. > > > > > > MET:R page 226: > > > A character may have several partial Vinculums to any number of > > > Kindred. Once an actual third-stage Vinculum forms, however, all other > > > partial Vinculums vanish. > > > > > > Additionally, text on MET:R page 43, regarding coteries, implies that > > > it is impossible to use Vinculums to bind all members directly to each > > > other: > > > Some very rare coteries attempt to overcome the inevitable growth of > > > mistrust between members by engaging in a web of Vinculums. Reciprocal bonds > > > wouldn't work to hold a coterie together; rather, it would engender loyalty > > > between pairs. Instead, these coteries engage in a practice that some > > > Kindred youth have rather crudely dubbed a "circle jerk." That is, one > > > neonate bonds herself to another, who bonds himself to a third, who bonds > > > himself to a fourth, who in turn bonds herself back to the ?rst. The amount > > > of trust required to enter into such an arrangement is incalculable, and the > > > results are inevitably painful for those involved, as they must spend much > > > of their time watching the object of their affections fawn over someone > > > else. > > > Many coteries that attempt this process eventually tear themselves > > > apart out of obsession and petty jealousy. > > > > > > Yet MET:R page 226 states: > > > The second drink generates a stronger connection between the two > > > Kindred, quite apart from potential Vitae addiction. The imbibing character > > > considers the blood's donor an important ?gure in his unlife, though he is > > > hardly enslaved. The character's interest might take the form of affection, > > > trust, admiration or protectiveness, depending on the character's > > > personality. The Storyteller might ask the character's player to attempt a > > > Resolve + Composure draw if the character tries to attack the nascent > > > regnant, or seriously harm her interests. > > > > > > Which would seem to imply that a two-stage Vinculum, if possible, > > > would indeed help make a group more cohesive, yet it is not mentioned in the > > > section on coteries. > > > > > > From all this, I would still lean toward not allowing partial > > > Vinculums once a full Vinculum is formed. Though I know there are others > > > who run it differently. > > > > > > Does anyone have a solid ruling on this? Or, failing that, what do > > > you all think? > > > > > > Cameron Oltmann > > > CA200308007 > > > DST CND011 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > > > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > > > > > > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > Camarilla Wiki Community: > http://www.cam-wiki.org > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/e88e0d50/attachment-0001.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:55:37 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sat Jan 6 14:55:40 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701061155k7c953cbapc878328b7c5b444e@mail.gmail.com> If the intent was clear, the question would have been asked. That passage can be interpreted several ways. On 1/6/07, Robert Paul wrote: > > I think you're stretching the letter.. the intent is pretty clear. That > intent isn't countered in any of the other passages quoted.. or anywhere > else I've seen. > > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/74674861/attachment.html From DTM009 at latech.edu Sat Jan 6 15:47:08 2007 From: DTM009 at latech.edu (Latech) Date: Sat Jan 6 15:47:26 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com><49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061155k7c953cbapc878328b7c5b444e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001d01c731d3$d77b7000$6601a8c0@NewHotness> It seems pretty clear to me too that the overwhelming power of the full vinculum makes lesser ones irrelevant, thus why it removes old ones. Now, you're right that it doesn't say for sure one way or the other. But in this case it seems to me its something they probably assumed was obvious from context. It seems that if it *was* possible to form new vinculums, they would make a note of that, because of the inherent confusion. And by the way, "If it was clear, it wouldn't be questioned" isn't much of an argument. With no disrespect to the asker of this particular question, there will always be people who need any given thing explained to them. Donny Mason US2003102425 ----- Original Message ----- From: m0rtis To: Rules discussion and advocacy Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages If the intent was clear, the question would have been asked. That passage can be interpreted several ways. On 1/6/07, Robert Paul < cobraprime@gmail.com> wrote: I think you're stretching the letter.. the intent is pretty clear. That intent isn't countered in any of the other passages quoted.. or anywhere else I've seen. -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/311be458/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 15:53:36 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sat Jan 6 15:53:40 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <001d01c731d3$d77b7000$6601a8c0@NewHotness> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061155k7c953cbapc878328b7c5b444e@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c731d3$d77b7000$6601a8c0@NewHotness> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701061253t7635cc99yedf4031c15c69696@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, Latech wrote: > > It seems pretty clear to me too that the overwhelming power of the full > vinculum makes lesser ones irrelevant, thus why it removes old ones. > > Now, you're right that it doesn't say for sure one way or the other. But > in this case it seems to me its something they probably assumed was obvious > from context. It seems that if it *was* possible to form new vinculums, they > would make a note of that, because of the inherent confusion. > I would think they would say the same if the intent was to no longer allow any new ones to be made. I believe there would be text to the likeness of "...and no new partial Viniculums can be made while enthralled to their new Regnant." In either case, neither are present. Both sides of the argument can be made from that statement. Frankly, they just didnt define it well enough. And by the way, "If it was clear, it wouldn't be questioned" isn't much of > an argument. With no disrespect to the asker of this particular question, > there will always be people who need any given thing explained to them. > It's not an agument. It's a statement. If the rules were clear, then the likelihood of someone asking would be low. In this case, the original poster did his research and could not find a definitive answer. So they asked. We found the crux of the issue, being that it's not defined very well at all. While you may disagree, that doesn't make either of us right. Donny Mason > US2003102425 > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* m0rtis > *To:* Rules discussion and advocacy > *Sent:* Saturday, January 06, 2007 1:55 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages > > If the intent was clear, the question would have been asked. > > That passage can be interpreted several ways. > > On 1/6/07, Robert Paul < cobraprime@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I think you're stretching the letter.. the intent is pretty clear. That > > intent isn't countered in any of the other passages quoted.. or anywhere > > else I've seen. > > > > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > Camarilla Wiki Community: > http://www.cam-wiki.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/4c48abda/attachment.html From DTM009 at latech.edu Sat Jan 6 16:25:29 2007 From: DTM009 at latech.edu (Latech) Date: Sat Jan 6 16:25:41 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com><49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com><49ffd2240701061155k7c953cbapc878328b7c5b444e@mail.gmail.com><001d01c731d3$d77b7000$6601a8c0@NewHotness> <49ffd2240701061253t7635cc99yedf4031c15c69696@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <011601c731d9$315162b0$6601a8c0@NewHotness> "It's not an agument. It's a statement. If the rules were clear, then the likelihood of someone asking would be low. In this case, the original poster did his research and could not find a definitive answer. So they asked. We found the crux of the issue, being that it's not defined very well at all. While you may disagree, that doesn't make either of us right. " Just to clarify, I wasn't actually disagreeing. I do think it should have been written more clearly. All we can really do is try to come to an agreement on the best way to interpret it. All I was doing here was making a tangential comment about a percieved argumental fallacy. But its really beside the point in this case, so let's just leave it at that. Donny Mason US2003102425 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070106/a0a831c3/attachment.html From lookinginsetx1977 at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 22:28:31 2007 From: lookinginsetx1977 at gmail.com (Joseph) Date: Sat Jan 6 22:28:34 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <011601c731d9$315162b0$6601a8c0@NewHotness> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061155k7c953cbapc878328b7c5b444e@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c731d3$d77b7000$6601a8c0@NewHotness> <49ffd2240701061253t7635cc99yedf4031c15c69696@mail.gmail.com> <011601c731d9$315162b0$6601a8c0@NewHotness> Message-ID: <789920170701061928q30b94cc1r2f095160310a0e9d@mail.gmail.com> The way I read it, it says that after a full Vinculum is formed, then you cannot even start a particial Vinculum until the vamp that the one in question is in thrall to is dead and ash. Joseph Lavergne CAM US2006027334 Silent Redemption, TX-064-D Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb about. Jesus Saves, all the rest of you take full damage... Find out something interesting about YOUR day at... http://library.thinkquest.org/2886/ Woody Allen - "If my films make one more person miserable, I'll feel I have done my job." From rulesninja at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 02:13:39 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sun Jan 7 02:13:41 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <789920170701061928q30b94cc1r2f095160310a0e9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061155k7c953cbapc878328b7c5b444e@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c731d3$d77b7000$6601a8c0@NewHotness> <49ffd2240701061253t7635cc99yedf4031c15c69696@mail.gmail.com> <011601c731d9$315162b0$6601a8c0@NewHotness> <789920170701061928q30b94cc1r2f095160310a0e9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701062313w1624fa3fj6b5de665ee4ef741@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, Joseph wrote: > > The way I read it, it says that after a full Vinculum is formed, then > you cannot even start a particial Vinculum until the vamp that the one > in question is in thrall to is dead and ash. > But the text doesn't actually say that's the case. (in fact, it says that you can reduce a 3 point to a 2 point, so the ash statement is false). It does say that you lose all partials that you had before the 3 point. But doesn't say you cant form other partials after. Part of the reason why I doubt the ruling is that Viniculum is largely based off of the mechanics for Blood Bonds in the old game, and they worked like I mention. While I dont believe in using the OWOD as an argument point (and I'm not really) is does give me reason to believe that the intent of the authors to allow such was present. The only thing we do know for certain is what the rules say. Everything else is opinion and conjecture. -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/c9241461/attachment.html From ben.cam at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 03:59:46 2007 From: ben.cam at gmail.com (Ben Rosenblum) Date: Sun Jan 7 03:59:47 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57475edd0701070059l4425230ay7637d23e0587b87a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, Robert Paul wrote: > I think you're stretching the letter.. the intent is pretty clear. That > intent isn't countered in any of the other passages quoted.. or anywhere > else I've seen. I'm going to have to agree with Rob's intrepretation on this one. Maybe you can form a new 1st-stage vinculum, but it would immediately vanish, as the 3rd-stage vinculum is still formed. -- Ben Rosenblum, US2002056116 From rulesninja at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 04:05:13 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sun Jan 7 04:05:48 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <57475edd0701070059l4425230ay7637d23e0587b87a@mail.gmail.com> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701070059l4425230ay7637d23e0587b87a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701070105u7b8502acpf26fd91bf72dad50@mail.gmail.com> > > I'm going to have to agree with Rob's intrepretation on this one. > > Maybe you can form a new 1st-stage vinculum, but it would immediately > vanish, as the 3rd-stage vinculum is still formed. Again, the rules aren't clear either way. Because they're not clear, anything else is just opinion and conjecture. It's really something that would need to be clarified. -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/ff0be7da/attachment.html From cobraprime at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 13:35:03 2007 From: cobraprime at gmail.com (Robert Paul) Date: Sun Jan 7 13:35:05 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Vinculums - multiple stages In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701070105u7b8502acpf26fd91bf72dad50@mail.gmail.com> References: <985c02d40701061131o5a382ac4sce0e0339bf8e8b5d@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701061145t8224304k967b5b4a2b9e19d1@mail.gmail.com> <57475edd0701070059l4425230ay7637d23e0587b87a@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701070105u7b8502acpf26fd91bf72dad50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You're right, the rules are ambiguous. Without a formal ruling we can't officially go one way or another. However in that instance we're reliant on ST calls and if I were an ST making that articular call I'd say you don't get any new viniculum as I believe it's the most accurate. Others are certainly welcome to make the same call. At least until it's clarified one way or another. -ROb Paul US2002023582 On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > I'm going to have to agree with Rob's intrepretation on this one. > > > > Maybe you can form a new 1st-stage vinculum, but it would immediately > > vanish, as the 3rd-stage vinculum is still formed. > > > Again, the rules aren't clear either way. Because they're not clear, > anything else is just opinion and conjecture. It's really something that > would need to be clarified. > > > > > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > Camarilla Wiki Community: > http://www.cam-wiki.org > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/6e0266ad/attachment.html From wesc at antitribu.com Sun Jan 7 19:19:33 2007 From: wesc at antitribu.com (Wes Contreras) Date: Sun Jan 7 19:19:37 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP Message-ID: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? -- Wes Contreras US2002022038 From rulesninja at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:59:12 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sun Jan 7 19:59:13 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> Which venue? On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? > > > -- > Wes Contreras > US2002022038 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/0d5a0fd1/attachment.html From millhouse1834 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:19:55 2007 From: millhouse1834 at gmail.com (Donald Bell) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:19:58 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2324903d0701071719y2df805ffs673c268fa57756b4@mail.gmail.com> I was actually wondering the same thing. Requiem and Forsaken are my main concerns but might as well through mage in there too. -- Donald Bell US2004092073 VST Forsaken LA002-D Mage The Awakening Octavius Grey Mastigos of the Guardians of the Veil Suspector of Northern Louisiana Werewolf The Forsaken Tyrone "Mangles-the-Weak" Davis Rahu of the Iron Masters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/5ba41b14/attachment.html From wesc at antitribu.com Sun Jan 7 20:24:12 2007 From: wesc at antitribu.com (Wes Contreras) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:24:15 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? > > Which venue? All of them. I don't have very good notes on when they started, so I don't know how many months it's been for each one. -- Wes Contreras US2002022038 From rulesninja at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:30:01 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:30:04 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> Requiem: 250xp (Go Live 1/1/05) Forsaken: 240xp (Go live 5/1/05, 8 months at 15/month) Awakening: 130xp (Go live 12/1/05) I dont play Mortals, so I couldnt calculate that. This is not including pre-chron or overcap XP. The numbers might be a bit off, but I am pretty sure they're on target. On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > > > > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? > > > > Which venue? > > All of them. > > I don't have very good notes on when they started, so I don't know how > many months it's been for each one. > > > -- > Wes Contreras > US2002022038 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/05a6dfcc/attachment.html From hammerofhappiness at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:31:30 2007 From: hammerofhappiness at gmail.com (Christopher Hittle) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:31:33 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> from the addendum "An amount of XP may be added to each Non-Player Character equal to the amount of XP that a Player Character of the same type may have earned since Jan-1-2005, based on the Non-Player Character's XP limit as defined in sanctioned material" Christopher A Hittle US2002045696 The Happiest of Hammers Green Lantern of the Just-Us League "I'm not sure where I find my self worth, but I do find myself worthy" On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > Requiem: 250xp (Go Live 1/1/05) > Forsaken: 240xp (Go live 5/1/05, 8 months at 15/month) > Awakening: 130xp (Go live 12/1/05) > > I dont play Mortals, so I couldnt calculate that. This is not including > pre-chron or overcap XP. The numbers might be a bit off, but I am pretty > sure they're on target. > > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > > > On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > > > > > > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? > > > > > > Which venue? > > > > All of them. > > > > I don't have very good notes on when they started, so I don't know how > > many months it's been for each one. > > > > > > -- > > Wes Contreras > > US2002022038 > > _______________________________________________ > > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > > > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > Camarilla Wiki Community: > http://www.cam-wiki.org > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/9193ce02/attachment.html From dsxmachina at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:42:00 2007 From: dsxmachina at gmail.com (dsxmachina) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:42:03 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ba15fcb0701071742r7c5fe9ceqd9ea38852919df9e@mail.gmail.com> Speaking of addendums, wasn't there supposed to be a new addendum released last week? micheal smith us2005012642 On 1/7/07, Christopher Hittle wrote: > > from the addendum > "An amount of XP may be added to each Non-Player Character equal to the > amount of XP that a Player Character of the same type may have earned since > Jan-1-2005, based on the Non-Player Character's XP limit as defined in > sanctioned material" > > > Christopher A Hittle > > US2002045696 > > The Happiest of Hammers > > Green Lantern of the Just-Us League > > > > "I'm not sure where I find my self worth, but I do find myself worthy" > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/0541f760/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:43:56 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:43:58 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <9ba15fcb0701071742r7c5fe9ceqd9ea38852919df9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> <9ba15fcb0701071742r7c5fe9ceqd9ea38852919df9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701071743rfc1dccfq3d2449d6285203b3@mail.gmail.com> They're looking at a 1/9/07 release with a 2/1/07 go live date. On 1/7/07, dsxmachina wrote: > > > Speaking of addendums, wasn't there supposed to be a new addendum > released last week? -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/a98a2eec/attachment.html From christopherbuser at comcast.net Sun Jan 7 20:45:03 2007 From: christopherbuser at comcast.net (Christopher Buser) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:44:47 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Next Addenda (was Chronicle XP) References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com><49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com><7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com><49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com><94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> <9ba15fcb0701071742r7c5fe9ceqd9ea38852919df9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <019501c732c6$9e4c4360$6501a8c0@Precious> " Speaking of addendums, wasn't there supposed to be a new addendum released last week? " In *theory*, the next edition of the Global Rules Addenda will be released on the 9th, with a "live" date of February 1, 2007. I find it highly unlikely that these targets will be met, and would ask the members to give the appropriate Powers that Be more time. chris buser us2002021013 usno From dsxmachina at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:45:42 2007 From: dsxmachina at gmail.com (dsxmachina) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:45:45 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701071743rfc1dccfq3d2449d6285203b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> <9ba15fcb0701071742r7c5fe9ceqd9ea38852919df9e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071743rfc1dccfq3d2449d6285203b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ba15fcb0701071745l7e8e8b90k247060db3679eff0@mail.gmail.com> Ahh, thanks. Micheal Smith US2005012642 On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > They're looking at a 1/9/07 release with a 2/1/07 go live date. > > On 1/7/07, dsxmachina wrote: > > > > > > Speaking of addendums, wasn't there supposed to be a new addendum > > released last week? > > > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > Camarilla Wiki Community: > http://www.cam-wiki.org > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/c86225d5/attachment-0001.html From dsxmachina at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:48:13 2007 From: dsxmachina at gmail.com (dsxmachina) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:48:16 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Next Addenda (was Chronicle XP) In-Reply-To: <019501c732c6$9e4c4360$6501a8c0@Precious> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> <9ba15fcb0701071742r7c5fe9ceqd9ea38852919df9e@mail.gmail.com> <019501c732c6$9e4c4360$6501a8c0@Precious> Message-ID: <9ba15fcb0701071748j2882a2b0h495e3c9fcd2f2ae2@mail.gmail.com> I don't think asking if an addendum has been or when it will be released necessarily infers impatience. I just was trying to be informed. I notice that every time someone asks when something is supposed to occur or if it has, especially on the LJ account, it seems the reaction is that the person is being impatient. Thanks for the info, Micheal Smith US2005012642 On 1/7/07, Christopher Buser wrote: > > " Speaking of addendums, wasn't there supposed to be a new addendum > released > last week? " > > In *theory*, the next edition of the Global Rules Addenda will be released > on the 9th, with a "live" date of February 1, 2007. > > I find it highly unlikely that these targets will be met, and would ask > the > members to give the appropriate Powers that Be more time. > > chris buser > us2002021013 > usno > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/9f446812/attachment.html From wesc at antitribu.com Sun Jan 7 21:15:08 2007 From: wesc at antitribu.com (Wes Contreras) Date: Sun Jan 7 21:15:11 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071659y770684b2n9d40167ce91b883f@mail.gmail.com> <7fe066dd0701071724x379bf878rb743826081fb392@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> <94cbfc1b0701071731j8bf8af4k46c857f46ff0d872@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7fe066dd0701071815p563ae082j41130ca1668c9205@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/07, Christopher Hittle wrote: > from the addendum > "An amount of XP may be added to each Non-Player Character equal to the > amount of XP that a Player Character of the same type may have earned since > Jan-1-2005, based on the Non-Player Character's XP limit as defined in > sanctioned material" That's what I get for going by memory instead of looking it up every tme. Thanks muchly for the correction, as that puts us at a nice friendly 250 + MC experience for an NPC. Not quite as much as some of the PCs in the venue (woo over cap?), but enough to be a challenge if I build right. -- Wes Contreras US2002022038 From sabbatkinex at cox.net Sun Jan 7 22:46:08 2007 From: sabbatkinex at cox.net (Chris Duesler) Date: Sun Jan 7 22:46:02 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006501c732d7$885fb6c0$cb6afea9@YOUR85A8F7B8EC> Should be about 360 xp I believe...with 3 years starting this January for Requiem...I believe 230 for Mage and Forsaken might be wrong though Chris Duesler US2002021854 -----Original Message----- From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com] On Behalf Of Wes Contreras Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:20 PM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? -- Wes Contreras US2002022038 _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy From rulesninja at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 22:50:53 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Sun Jan 7 22:50:55 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <006501c732d7$885fb6c0$cb6afea9@YOUR85A8F7B8EC> References: <7fe066dd0701071619j31541a32jb7500c901106ce38@mail.gmail.com> <006501c732d7$885fb6c0$cb6afea9@YOUR85A8F7B8EC> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701071950k11e99c9ci50fa5745dd5162d5@mail.gmail.com> Jan 1st is the 2 year mark for Requiem. On 1/7/07, Chris Duesler wrote: > > Should be about 360 xp I believe...with 3 years starting this January for > Requiem...I believe 230 for Mage and Forsaken might be wrong though > > Chris Duesler > US2002021854 > > -----Original Message----- > From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com > [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com] On Behalf Of > Wes > Contreras > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:20 PM > To: Rules discussion and advocacy > Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? > > > -- > Wes Contreras > US2002022038 > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > > > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/b83e45b7/attachment.html From sabbatkinex at cox.net Mon Jan 8 00:07:44 2007 From: sabbatkinex at cox.net (Chris Duesler) Date: Mon Jan 8 00:07:26 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701071950k11e99c9ci50fa5745dd5162d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001901c732e2$ee6a4c90$cb6afea9@YOUR85A8F7B8EC> Dan, As usual you're on the money. Thanks Chris Duesler US2002021854 _____ From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com] On Behalf Of m0rtis Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:51 PM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP Jan 1st is the 2 year mark for Requiem. On 1/7/07, Chris Duesler wrote: Should be about 360 xp I believe...with 3 years starting this January for Requiem...I believe 230 for Mage and Forsaken might be wrong though Chris Duesler US2002021854 -----Original Message----- From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com ] On Behalf Of Wes Contreras Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:20 PM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP What's chronicle XP now for purposes of creating NPCs? -- Wes Contreras US2002022038 _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070107/63610e4c/attachment.html From busybody at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 8 12:14:04 2007 From: busybody at sbcglobal.net (Brian Gates) Date: Mon Jan 8 12:51:34 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701071730t69fd87d6v3a919e95cd0bbb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <212666.7197.qm@web82712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There used to be an online tool that I had copied (with permission) and had up for the old chronicle, and in fact still have up and still functional :). Time to make a new one :) Chronicle XP for making NPCs obviously cannot include overcap, or special "pre-play" xp, like Dec 2004 xp for Requiem. Or would there be any arguement to the contrary? Brian Gates, US2002022638, generally-in-motion --- m0rtis wrote: > Requiem: 250xp (Go Live 1/1/05) > Forsaken: 240xp (Go live 5/1/05, 8 months at > 15/month) > Awakening: 130xp (Go live 12/1/05) > > I dont play Mortals, so I couldnt calculate that. > This is not including > pre-chron or overcap XP. The numbers might be a bit > off, but I am pretty > sure they're on target. > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras > wrote: > > > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of > creating NPCs? > > > Which venue? > > All of them. > > I don't have very good notes on when they started, > so I don't know how > > many months it's been for each one. From simonblackfell at ets-il009d.com Mon Jan 8 15:45:01 2007 From: simonblackfell at ets-il009d.com (Steven E. Jones AKA Simon) Date: Mon Jan 8 15:45:04 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Chronicle XP In-Reply-To: <212666.7197.qm@web82712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <267602.51371.qm@web402.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Also, remember you can scale the npc's with UP TO chronicle exp. so if you have a game where people do not travel much at all or where your chapter is fairly new you can scale them down to be more reasonable for your specific game. Brian Gates wrote: There used to be an online tool that I had copied (with permission) and had up for the old chronicle, and in fact still have up and still functional :). Time to make a new one :) Chronicle XP for making NPCs obviously cannot include overcap, or special "pre-play" xp, like Dec 2004 xp for Requiem. Or would there be any arguement to the contrary? Brian Gates, US2002022638, generally-in-motion --- m0rtis wrote: > Requiem: 250xp (Go Live 1/1/05) > Forsaken: 240xp (Go live 5/1/05, 8 months at > 15/month) > Awakening: 130xp (Go live 12/1/05) > > I dont play Mortals, so I couldnt calculate that. > This is not including > pre-chron or overcap XP. The numbers might be a bit > off, but I am pretty > sure they're on target. > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras wrote: > > On 1/7/07, m0rtis wrote: > > > On 1/7/07, Wes Contreras > wrote: > > > > What's chronicle XP now for purposes of > creating NPCs? > > > Which venue? > > All of them. > > I don't have very good notes on when they started, > so I don't know how > > many months it's been for each one. _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy Simon AKA Steven E. Jones US 2002066192 Simonblackfell@ets-il009d.com GL Region Chapter IL-018-D DST Excidere_Exsecrati "There is nothing so embarassing as watching someone do something you said could not be done." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070108/143c1411/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 03:11:02 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Tue Jan 9 03:11:04 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? Message-ID: <49ffd2240701090011p1fffbbd8x9fc311ea7ef461a0@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys, I've not seen a post to cam-rules-answers in some time. Are we not doing them anymore, or are things on hold until the new addenda? -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070109/c32ec0cb/attachment.html From capntypo at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 04:39:22 2007 From: capntypo at gmail.com (Ben Sims) Date: Tue Jan 9 04:39:28 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701090011p1fffbbd8x9fc311ea7ef461a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701090011p1fffbbd8x9fc311ea7ef461a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b6642110701090139l68ab29edjfd533a7f54e6ae7@mail.gmail.com> Probably on delay waiting for the new NST to get settled in ya know?. if I had to venture a guess that is... No page number on this opinion. On 1/9/07, m0rtis wrote: > Hey guys, > > I've not seen a post to cam-rules-answers in some time. Are we not doing > them anymore, or are things on hold until the new addenda? > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 -Ben Sims Us2002034332 Aim-Capntypo ICQ-93643392 www.deathbydice.com Random Gaming Comic From rulesninja at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 04:42:29 2007 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Tue Jan 9 04:42:35 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? In-Reply-To: <9b6642110701090139l68ab29edjfd533a7f54e6ae7@mail.gmail.com> References: <49ffd2240701090011p1fffbbd8x9fc311ea7ef461a0@mail.gmail.com> <9b6642110701090139l68ab29edjfd533a7f54e6ae7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240701090142x22dee588q6e763c99106c0d57@mail.gmail.com> What does the NST have to do with the Global rules answers list? I thought the AAMST-Rules did all the answers, not the USNST's staff. On 1/9/07, Ben Sims wrote: > > Probably on delay waiting for the new NST to get settled in ya know?. > if I had to venture a guess that is... No page number on this opinion. > > > On 1/9/07, m0rtis wrote: > > Hey guys, > > > > I've not seen a post to cam-rules-answers in some time. Are we not doing > > them anymore, or are things on hold until the new addenda? > > > > -- > > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > > > > -Ben Sims > Us2002034332 > Aim-Capntypo > ICQ-93643392 > www.deathbydice.com > Random Gaming Comic > _______________________________________________ > Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list > Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy > -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070109/41badd7b/attachment.html From kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jan 9 08:05:41 2007 From: kterpenning at tampabay.rr.com (Lance) Date: Tue Jan 9 08:05:44 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240701090142x22dee588q6e763c99106c0d57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Your right Dan. Sometimes the answers come out ealry in the month (covering the month prior). Sometimes it comes out later. I have advocated for a weekly post (or every two week post) to help with the long wait. But it seems not enough people were on board with that idea. Consider the idea that members anxiously await the rules-answers list officially seconded. Lance Terpenning US2002023228 / 9709-062 CC Crimson Coast ~ Fl-038-C AVST Requiem ~ FL-038-C CPI Education Advisor Camarilla University ~ camarilla.white-wolf.com/education/ Sarasota, FL Home Page ~ crimsoncoast.metvamp.com/ ?A truth that?s told with bad intent Beats all the lies you can invent.? ~ William Blake -----Original Message----- From: cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto:cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com]On Behalf Of m0rtis Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:42 AM To: Rules discussion and advocacy Subject: Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? What does the NST have to do with the Global rules answers list? I thought the AAMST-Rules did all the answers, not the USNST's staff. On 1/9/07, Ben Sims wrote: Probably on delay waiting for the new NST to get settled in ya know?. if I had to venture a guess that is... No page number on this opinion. On 1/9/07, m0rtis wrote: > Hey guys, > > I've not seen a post to cam-rules-answers in some time. Are we not doing > them anymore, or are things on hold until the new addenda? > > -- > Dan Wright - US2002021042 -Ben Sims Us2002034332 Aim-Capntypo ICQ-93643392 www.deathbydice.com Random Gaming Comic _______________________________________________ Cam-rules-advocacy mailing list Cam-rules-advocacy@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/cam-rules-advocacy -- Dan Wright - US2002021042 Camarilla Wiki Community: http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/cam-rules-advocacy/attachments/20070109/a38276d3/attachment.html From balefire47 at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 12:10:01 2007 From: balefire47 at gmail.com (Steve Zelenty) Date: Tue Jan 9 12:10:03 2007 Subject: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? In-Reply-To: References: <49ffd2240701090142x22dee588q6e763c99106c0d57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: All the answers are based off questions asked here... or is it only questions sent directly to the AAMST? On 1/9/07, Lance wrote: > > Your right Dan. Sometimes the answers come out ealry in the month > (covering the month prior). Sometimes it comes out later. I have advocated > for a weekly post (or every two week post) to help with the long wait. But > it seems not enough people were on board with that idea. > > Consider the idea that members anxiously await the rules-answers list > officially seconded. > > > *Lance Terpenning > *US2002023228 / 9709-062 > CC Crimson Coast ~ Fl-038-C > AVST Requiem ~ FL-038-C > CPI Education Advisor > > Camarilla University ~* camarilla.white-wolf.com/education/* > Sarasota, FL Home Page ~* crimsoncoast.metvamp.com/* > > '*A truth that's told with bad intent > Beats all the lies you can invent.'* > ~ William Blake > -----Original Message----- > *From:* cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com [mailto: > cam-rules-advocacy-bounces@cammail.white-wolf.com]*On Behalf Of *m0rtis > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:42 AM > *To:* Rules discussion and advocacy > *Subject:* Re: [Cam-rules-advocacy] Cam-Rules-Answers posts? > > What does the NST have to do with the Global rules answers list? I thought > the AAMST-Rules did all the answers, not the USNST's staff. > > On 1/9/07, Ben Sims wrote: > > > > Probably on delay waiting for the new NST to get settled in ya know?. > > if I had to venture a guess that is... No page number on this opinion. > > > > > > On 1/9/07, m0rtis wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > > > > > I've not seen a post to cam-rules-answers in some time. Are we not > > doing > > > them anymore, or are things on hold until the new addenda? > > > > > > -- > > > Dan Wright - US2002021042 > > > > > > > > -Ben Sims > > Us2002034332 > > Aim-Capntypo > > ICQ-93643392 > > w