From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 13:36:12 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Tue Mar 4 13:37:26 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask Message-ID: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> I am not even sure what book this is from or if its even Mage. Can anyone help me? What book is it in? What does it do? -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/d1b43bbc/attachment.html From nickooc at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 13:42:11 2008 From: nickooc at gmail.com (Nicholas Jacob) Date: Tue Mar 4 13:43:27 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> There is a resource that you can use to check for things like this. It is currently up to date. http://cam-wiki.org/Venue_Directories Nicholas Jacob ADST Rules & Mechanics US2007039607 in OH-010-D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/dc5decd3/attachment.html From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 14:43:20 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Tue Mar 4 14:44:40 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask In-Reply-To: <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40c3f3440803041143q7c7572eew7ea19531af1cef58@mail.gmail.com> I couldn't find it on there. Thus asking on here. On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Nicholas Jacob wrote: > There is a resource that you can use to check for things like this. It is > currently up to date. > http://cam-wiki.org/Venue_Directories > > Nicholas Jacob > ADST Rules & Mechanics > US2007039607 in OH-010-D > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/5fad2d62/attachment.html From nickooc at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 14:56:32 2008 From: nickooc at gmail.com (Nicholas Jacob) Date: Tue Mar 4 14:57:46 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803041143q7c7572eew7ea19531af1cef58@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803041143q7c7572eew7ea19531af1cef58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <63dd16310803041156g64cf3d2fs33f5563757a61a09@mail.gmail.com> Well, a Mortal Mask is one of the things that a changeling has that's inherent to their nature. If that's what we're talking about it could mean the image that mortals perceive instead of the "real" one. What context is it in? Nicholas Jacob ADST Rules & Mechanics US2007039607 in OH-010-D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/f24d6f13/attachment-0001.html From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 15:26:58 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Tue Mar 4 15:28:27 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask In-Reply-To: <63dd16310803041156g64cf3d2fs33f5563757a61a09@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803041143q7c7572eew7ea19531af1cef58@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041156g64cf3d2fs33f5563757a61a09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40c3f3440803041226n176e1173sb664dc8c399ad9ac@mail.gmail.com> I'm making some spirits for my game and one of the Numina options is Mortal Mask On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Nicholas Jacob wrote: > Well, a Mortal Mask is one of the things that a changeling has that's > inherent to their nature. If that's what we're talking about it could mean > the image that mortals perceive instead of the "real" one. What context is > it in? > > > Nicholas Jacob > ADST Rules & Mechanics > US2007039607 in OH-010-D > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/64e34fd9/attachment.html From shadowedpeaksdst at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 15:31:42 2008 From: shadowedpeaksdst at gmail.com (Sean Bergeman) Date: Tue Mar 4 15:32:58 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803041226n176e1173sb664dc8c399ad9ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803041143q7c7572eew7ea19531af1cef58@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041156g64cf3d2fs33f5563757a61a09@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803041226n176e1173sb664dc8c399ad9ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9fb7e810803041231r3d119464sc72600065de2e54c@mail.gmail.com> That's in Book of Spirits pg 143 On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > I'm making some spirits for my game and one of the Numina options is > Mortal Mask -- Sean D. Bergeman US2002021956 Colorado Springs DST ARST Web/Tech http://www.northcentralregion.com/rst/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/26b55bbc/attachment.html From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 16:46:22 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Tue Mar 4 16:47:52 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Mortal Mask In-Reply-To: <9fb7e810803041231r3d119464sc72600065de2e54c@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803041036p4829b93dtf8a22e804ac6d4e1@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041042g6e10f4d1w3bbdb2fadda64d19@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803041143q7c7572eew7ea19531af1cef58@mail.gmail.com> <63dd16310803041156g64cf3d2fs33f5563757a61a09@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803041226n176e1173sb664dc8c399ad9ac@mail.gmail.com> <9fb7e810803041231r3d119464sc72600065de2e54c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40c3f3440803041346l14487719t20cc96fa336149fb@mail.gmail.com> thanks On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Sean Bergeman wrote: > That's in Book of Spirits pg 143 > > > On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Tiffany Pusatello < > purplepuddlenut@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm making some spirits for my game and one of the Numina options is > > Mortal Mask > > > > > -- > Sean D. Bergeman > US2002021956 > Colorado Springs DST > ARST Web/Tech > http://www.northcentralregion.com/rst/ > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080304/0759984c/attachment.html From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 13:52:59 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Wed Mar 5 13:54:17 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book Message-ID: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> So in the MET Mage book on Page 62 it reads just below a table "Two of his highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" in the addendum it reads *Arcana Mastery [A.5.01] The sentence on page 62 that says "Two of his highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana".* I had a player read this last night and just go up in arms upset.She asked me why the ruling was this way and it made ZERO sense to her. I tried for 30 minutes to explain to her why this ruling was the way it was and frankly, I couldn't really give her a good reason besides "this is what the cam has ruled" She says that if your an Obrimos, you should be working hardiest on Forces and Prime. Period. I THINK she also is saying that you should be working on them both, not just one or why would you be that path? That is what your better at, that is what you are going to study, everything else is lower priority Say Forces 5, Mind 5 and prime 4 would be satisfactory to her. Or maybe prime 3. I am fine with the Cam ruling, however she makes a good point. Why be Obrimos if you only plan to have a dot of prime and forces? Why be a Thyrsus if you don't like Spirit? -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/5797d3d0/attachment.html From swiftone at swiftone.org Wed Mar 5 13:58:36 2008 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Wed Mar 5 13:59:51 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960803051058o1c05ba5eo6546140c66ef5f0a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > I am fine with the Cam ruling, however she makes a good point. Why be > Obrimos if you only plan to have a dot of prime and forces? Why be a Thyrsus > if you don't like Spirit? Because your Path is more than what magic you can work? The paths have write-ups much longer than "These two Arcana are Ruling". The reason the change was put in the addendum is likely not based on any such rationale, but it's a real good answer. -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From dspawlowski at mac.com Wed Mar 5 14:00:20 2008 From: dspawlowski at mac.com (Daniel Pawlowski) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:02:16 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> Boils down to the fact that the Xp debt would be huge for a fair number of folks given that the TT book is written the way that the Addenda changes MET. It is quite possible that with a reset, as (un) likely as that is, this change will be removed. Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) On Mar 5, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > So in the MET Mage book on Page 62 it reads just below a table "Two > of his highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling > Arcana" in the addendum it reads > > Arcana Mastery [A.5.01] > > The sentence on page 62 that says "Two of his highest three Arcana > must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two > of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana". > > I had a player read this last night and just go up in arms > upset.She asked me why the ruling was this way and it made ZERO > sense to her. I tried for 30 minutes to explain to her why this > ruling was the way it was and frankly, I couldn't really give her a > good reason besides "this is what the cam has ruled" She says that > if your an Obrimos, you should be working hardiest on Forces and > Prime. Period. I THINK she also is saying that you should be > working on them both, not just one or why would you be that path? > That is what your better at, that is what you are going to study, > everything else is lower priority Say Forces 5, Mind 5 and prime 4 > would be satisfactory to her. Or maybe prime 3. > > I am fine with the Cam ruling, however she makes a good point. Why > be Obrimos if you only plan to have a dot of prime and forces? Why > be a Thyrsus if you don't like Spirit? > -- > Tiffany Pusatello > Cam ID:US2006027438 > VST: Mage: The Awakening > PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/5f404dd1/attachment-0001.html From mindwright at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:13:54 2008 From: mindwright at gmail.com (David Blackwell) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:15:16 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> Message-ID: Actually the rule is in TT, but it isn't very clear or obvious, and isn't stated in a way that catches your attention. So most Cam storytellers and players ignored it. MET came out and made it clear but I think the ST staff decided that enforcing it would require too many dramatic rewrites and mess with continuity too much so the official cam rule became "you can ignore this rule." David Blackwell US2002021120 On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > Boils down to the fact that the Xp debt would be huge for a fair number of > folks given that the TT book is written the way that the Addenda changes > MET. It is quite possible that with a reset, as (un)likely as that is, this > change will be removed. > > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > > > On Mar 5, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > > So in the MET Mage book on Page 62 it reads just below a table "Two of > his highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" in > the addendum it reads > > *Arcana Mastery [A.5.01] > > The sentence on page 62 that says "Two of his highest three Arcana must > always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two of his first > three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana".* > > I had a player read this last night and just go up in arms upset.She asked > me why the ruling was this way and it made ZERO sense to her. I tried for 30 > minutes to explain to her why this ruling was the way it was and frankly, I > couldn't really give her a good reason besides "this is what the cam has > ruled" She says that if your an Obrimos, you should be working hardiest on > Forces and Prime. Period. I THINK she also is saying that you should be > working on them both, not just one or why would you be that path? That is > what your better at, that is what you are going to study, everything else is > lower priority Say Forces 5, Mind 5 and prime 4 would be satisfactory to > her. Or maybe prime 3. > > I am fine with the Cam ruling, however she makes a good point. Why be > Obrimos if you only plan to have a dot of prime and forces? Why be a Thyrsus > if you don't like Spirit? > -- > Tiffany Pusatello > Cam ID:US2006027438 > VST: Mage: The Awakening > PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/1194e763/attachment.html From richardhussey42 at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:17:16 2008 From: richardhussey42 at gmail.com (Richard Hussey) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:18:32 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75a02b470803051117h32b3989fy21200238385f8117@mail.gmail.com> On 3/5/08, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > So in the MET Mage book on Page 62 it reads just below a table "Two of his > highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" in the > addendum it reads > > Arcana Mastery [A.5.01] > > The sentence on page 62 that says "Two of his highest three Arcana must > always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two of his first > three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana". What does it actually /mean/? Because it's still confusing me... R. -- Yours, Richard Hussey UK 0701-1705 http://cam-wiki.org/index.php/Richard_Hussey VC London Promethean - http://promethean.cam-wiki.org/index.php/London VC Inverness Changeling - http://changeling.cam-wiki.org/index.php/Dunasheen IC: {Requiem} Doctor Finch http://ordodracul.cam-wiki.org/Daedalus_Finch {Requiem} Charles Martin http://cam-wiki.org/Charles_Martin {Mortals} Patrick Noble http://mortals.cam-wiki.org/Patrick_Noble {Created} Imsety http://promethean.cam-wiki.org/Imsety {Awakening} Sicarius http://magetheawakening.org/Sicarius {Lost} Adrian Grey http://changeling.cam-wiki.org/Adrian_Grey {Lost} Mr Wednesday http://changeling.cam-wiki.org/Mr_Wednesday From jenpitts at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:17:25 2008 From: jenpitts at gmail.com (Jennifer Seggev) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:18:40 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43e097d80803051117h1fa37031h5027c834d127fb8b@mail.gmail.com> Your path is what you are. It governs a lot about the mage, how they awaken, etc. Arcana is a choice of what to study after that. It really boils down to a simple fact. Changing the rules on what Arcana MUST be your two highest 2 YEARS into a game is iffy at best, an outright disaster at worst. A ruling was made in the US at the start of game, clarifing wording in the TT book to mean only at creation. So a lot of people picked Path on what theme fit their PC best, and then developed a separate magical tool set as time went on. Especially as the game went on, and it became usful to have X, Y, or Z because of the local game, or what your goals in the game depended on. Then the MET book came out, with the wording explicit. And the ST's had to make a choice of keeping things as they have been for the past two years, applying the rule *just* to PC's created after the rewrite, or trying to retroactively force an entire venue into new character build rules. The latter would have been a disaster, as even with the rewrite you would have had quite a few people having to seriously change their character sheet to become compliant with the rules, sometimes even at the cost of their base concept or role in the game. You would have had to explain away arcana change in mass, rather than the shifting of a few dots most people chose. As well as deal with the sheer unhappiness of the players, some of whom would have found what they were playing for 2 years very much harder to play now. So the ST's picked what they though was best for the game. Not everyone will be happy with this decisions, but it is the job at the higher levels to pick the best for the most number of people. Jen Seggev AAMST Dpotm Awakening us2002021735 (Personally, I would have gone with applying it to PC's created after 2-1-08, but that's just me.) On 3/5/08, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > > So in the MET Mage book on Page 62 it reads just below a table "Two of his > highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" in the > addendum it reads > > *Arcana Mastery [A.5.01] > > The sentence on page 62 that says "Two of his highest three Arcana must > always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two of his first > three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana".* > > I had a player read this last night and just go up in arms upset.She asked > me why the ruling was this way and it made ZERO sense to her. I tried for 30 > minutes to explain to her why this ruling was the way it was and frankly, I > couldn't really give her a good reason besides "this is what the cam has > ruled" She says that if your an Obrimos, you should be working hardiest on > Forces and Prime. Period. I THINK she also is saying that you should be > working on them both, not just one or why would you be that path? That is > what your better at, that is what you are going to study, everything else is > lower priority Say Forces 5, Mind 5 and prime 4 would be satisfactory to > her. Or maybe prime 3. > > I am fine with the Cam ruling, however she makes a good point. Why be > Obrimos if you only plan to have a dot of prime and forces? Why be a Thyrsus > if you don't like Spirit? > -- > Tiffany Pusatello > Cam ID:US2006027438 > VST: Mage: The Awakening > PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/6f52874b/attachment.html From swiftone at swiftone.org Wed Mar 5 14:24:27 2008 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:25:43 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <75a02b470803051117h32b3989fy21200238385f8117@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <75a02b470803051117h32b3989fy21200238385f8117@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960803051124l162bd2awcc874c6ee6547fad@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Richard Hussey wrote: > On 3/5/08, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > > always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two of his first > > three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana". > > What does it actually /mean/? Because it's still confusing me... It's identical to the rule at character creation, so far as I can tell. Post creation, the rule has no meaning. -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:33:22 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:34:40 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> The Addendum change to MET is verbatim to the TT rule in the same location. Where is this other rule at? I'm not idly picking a fight; I'm trying to get a TT chronicle started and one of my goals is to create an Addendum version reconciled with the TT books. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:13 PM, David Blackwell wrote: > Actually the rule is in TT, but it isn't very clear or obvious, and isn't > stated in a way that catches your attention. So most Cam storytellers and > players ignored it. > > MET came out and made it clear but I think the ST staff decided that > enforcing it would require too many dramatic rewrites and mess with > continuity too much so the official cam rule became "you can ignore this > rule." > > David Blackwell > US2002021120 > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/bc60fa1e/attachment-0001.html From thebuser at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:36:33 2008 From: thebuser at gmail.com (christopher buser) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:37:50 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> Message-ID: On 3/5/08, David Blackwell wrote: > > Actually the rule is in TT, but it isn't very clear or obvious, and isn't > stated in a way that catches your attention. So most Cam storytellers and > players ignored it. > > MET came out and made it clear but I think the ST staff decided that > enforcing it would require too many dramatic rewrites and mess with > continuity too much so the official cam rule became "you can ignore this > rule." > David nailed it in one. So you can tell your player that WW's fan club made the executive decision to ignore this part of WW's rules in order not to disrupt this chronicle, but with luck, that rule will be enforced after reset. -- Chris Buser US National Ombudsman US2002021013 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/d6a55e87/attachment.html From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:41:44 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:43:00 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> http://camarilla.white-wolf.com/MST/images/stories/met_preview_0108.html On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > The Addendum change to MET is verbatim to the TT rule in the same > location. Where is this other rule at? I'm not idly picking a fight; I'm > trying to get a TT chronicle started and one of my goals is to create an > Addendum version reconciled with the TT books. > > -- > Eric Moore > US2004112432 > I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. > You are in my Monkeysphere. > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/aac73e41/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 14:55:57 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:57:14 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> That would be the Addendum change from the MET back to the TT verbage. I'm looking for the other text, presumably in the TT book, that David and Chris allege states the MET wording is how it is supposed to work in TT. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Tiffany Pusatello wrote: > http://camarilla.white-wolf.com/MST/images/stories/met_preview_0108.html > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Eric Moore > wrote: > > > The Addendum change to MET is verbatim to the TT rule in the same > > location. Where is this other rule at? I'm not idly picking a fight; I'm > > trying to get a TT chronicle started and one of my goals is to create an > > Addendum version reconciled with the TT books. > > > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/7beadb9a/attachment.html From andrewmcam at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 15:18:57 2008 From: andrewmcam at gmail.com (Andrew McGregor) Date: Wed Mar 5 15:20:13 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Its not worded that way in TT. From page 76 above the chart which the comparbale spot from MET states: " The chart below lists the maximum dots a character can have in an Arcanum per dot of Gnosis that he possesses. Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana." On 3/5/08, Eric Moore wrote: > That would be the Addendum change from the MET back to the TT verbage. I'm > looking for the other text, presumably in the TT book, that David and Chris > allege states the MET wording is how it is supposed to work in TT. > > -- Andrew McGregor US2002021878 From mindwright at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 16:24:36 2008 From: mindwright at gmail.com (David Blackwell) Date: Wed Mar 5 16:25:52 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: These rules are not at all clear in TT. The two sentences you are quoting are the same rules Chris and I are talking about. In the chart those two sentences are describing, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd arcana are listed with explicit limits based on Gnosis. Therefore, according to the restriction in that second sentence, your ruling arcana have to occupy two of the first three columns on the chart. MET makes that clear. There was a storyteller decision early in the chronicle that the sentence: "Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" did not apply to the chart, but to starting Arcana dots... this is a fairly odd place to put the restriction if that was the intent, but that is how it was ruled. Because of this decision, when MET made the intent clear we were already painted into a corner. So the addendum changes the wording so it explicitly applies to starting dots only. David Blackwell US2002021120 On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > Its not worded that way in TT. From page 76 above the chart which the > comparbale spot from MET states: " > The chart below lists the maximum dots a character can have in an > Arcanum per dot of Gnosis that he possesses. Two of his first three > Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana." > > On 3/5/08, Eric Moore wrote: > > That would be the Addendum change from the MET back to the TT verbage. > I'm > > looking for the other text, presumably in the TT book, that David and > Chris > > allege states the MET wording is how it is supposed to work in TT. > -- > Andrew McGregor > US2002021878 > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/b7334ca8/attachment.html From thebuser at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 16:43:08 2008 From: thebuser at gmail.com (christopher buser) Date: Wed Mar 5 16:44:25 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > These rules are not at all clear in TT. The two sentences you are quoting > are the same rules Chris and I are talking about. > I'm at work, give me about 2 hours to do a compare and contrast if requested, but so far David's on target with this one. In the chart those two sentences are describing, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd > arcana are listed with explicit limits based on Gnosis. Therefore, according > to the restriction in that second sentence, your ruling arcana have to > occupy two of the first three columns on the chart. MET makes that clear. > -nods- It ties Arcana into Path in much the same way Disciplines are to Clan, or Gifts are to Auspice. You come to expect X to be skilled with Y, or at least be more skilled than your average not-X. Stereotypes typically exist for a reason, after all. The "highest 2 out of 3" still gives you some flexibility, allowing a Thrysus to be either a Life Master -and- a Master of something besides Spirit, or a Spirit Master -and- a Master of something besides Spirit, but eliminates the "Yeah, I'm a Thrysus, with Life 2, Spirit 2, and Death, Forces, and Space at 5. So what?" from occuring. > There was a storyteller decision early in the chronicle that the > sentence: "Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling > Arcana" did not apply to the chart, but to starting Arcana dots... this is a > fairly odd place to put the restriction if that was the intent, but that is > how it was ruled. Because of this decision, when MET made the intent clear > we were already painted into a corner. So the addendum changes the wording > so it explicitly applies to starting dots only. > Ayup. It's too late to be fixed now, so we just kludge it and move on, and fix it next time. :) > David Blackwell > US2002021120 > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Andrew McGregor > wrote: > > > Its not worded that way in TT. From page 76 above the chart which the > > comparbale spot from MET states: " > > The chart below lists the maximum dots a character can have in an > > Arcanum per dot of Gnosis that he possesses. Two of his first three > > Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana." > > > > > > On 3/5/08, Eric Moore wrote: > > > That would be the Addendum change from the MET back to the TT verbage. > > I'm > > > looking for the other text, presumably in the TT book, that David and > > Chris > > > allege states the MET wording is how it is supposed to work in TT. > > > > -- > > Andrew McGregor > > US2002021878 > > _______________________________________________ > > Awakening-rules mailing list > > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Chris Buser US National Ombudsman US2002021013 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/da482dba/attachment-0001.html From eddennison at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 16:51:09 2008 From: eddennison at yahoo.com (Eric Dennison) Date: Wed Mar 5 16:52:26 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <29187.61585.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> My comment would be though that perhaps since each path gets 2 arcana that you may like one arcana and not the other as much. Say for example you wanted Prime and Life. You could choose obrimos and push high in life magic or Thyrsus and push Prime. It really should only be at character creation since beyond that point you decide what you learn. If you choose to follow the standard following indicated in your path great, if not, that is ok too. It should represent what you want to learn which will allow each mage to have some individuality in the scheme of things. Just a thought on the matter. Eric Dennison US2002022107 christopher buser wrote: These rules are not at all clear in TT. The two sentences you are quoting are the same rules Chris and I are talking about. I'm at work, give me about 2 hours to do a compare and contrast if requested, but so far David's on target with this one. In the chart those two sentences are describing, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd arcana are listed with explicit limits based on Gnosis. Therefore, according to the restriction in that second sentence, your ruling arcana have to occupy two of the first three columns on the chart. MET makes that clear. -nods- It ties Arcana into Path in much the same way Disciplines are to Clan, or Gifts are to Auspice. You come to expect X to be skilled with Y, or at least be more skilled than your average not-X. Stereotypes typically exist for a reason, after all. The "highest 2 out of 3" still gives you some flexibility, allowing a Thrysus to be either a Life Master -and- a Master of something besides Spirit, or a Spirit Master -and- a Master of something besides Spirit, but eliminates the "Yeah, I'm a Thrysus, with Life 2, Spirit 2, and Death, Forces, and Space at 5. So what?" from occuring. There was a storyteller decision early in the chronicle that the sentence: "Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" did not apply to the chart, but to starting Arcana dots... this is a fairly odd place to put the restriction if that was the intent, but that is how it was ruled. Because of this decision, when MET made the intent clear we were already painted into a corner. So the addendum changes the wording so it explicitly applies to starting dots only. Ayup. It's too late to be fixed now, so we just kludge it and move on, and fix it next time. :) David Blackwell US2002021120 On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: Its not worded that way in TT. From page 76 above the chart which the comparbale spot from MET states: " The chart below lists the maximum dots a character can have in an Arcanum per dot of Gnosis that he possesses. Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana." On 3/5/08, Eric Moore wrote: > That would be the Addendum change from the MET back to the TT verbage. I'm > looking for the other text, presumably in the TT book, that David and Chris > allege states the MET wording is how it is supposed to work in TT. -- Andrew McGregor US2002021878 _______________________________________________ Awakening-rules mailing list Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules _______________________________________________ Awakening-rules mailing list Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules -- Chris Buser US National Ombudsman US2002021013 _______________________________________________ Awakening-rules mailing list Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/8f803ff5/attachment.html From phillchip at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 17:00:05 2008 From: phillchip at yahoo.com (Phillips David) Date: Wed Mar 5 17:01:21 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana In-Reply-To: <20080305214430.B327A28AA56F@cammail.white-wolf.com> Message-ID: <608724.95471.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Even if a person has an arcana or five higher than their rulling pair, the whole having to pay mana for creative nonrulling arcana spells puts a limit on what one can do. David Phillips US2004041411 --- awakening-rules-request@cammail.white-wolf.com wrote: ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 20:34:38 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Wed Mar 5 20:35:59 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803051734v7ec7dc2aqce64e4fd7aaba241@mail.gmail.com> Actually, considering that the section is part of the character creation rules, the assumption that it is referring to character creation on that chart isn't odd at all. I'm going to try to contact Bill Bridges and get him to clarify, as I've always interpreted as referring back to that character creation rules. Since those are potential maximums, there's not much point to specifying the rows your Ruling Arcana must occupy. The actual effects in the Cam would be: - Gnosis 1 - No additional limitations. - Gnosis 2 - Can have Adept level in only one non-ruling Arcanum instead of two. - Gnosis 3 - Can have Adept OR Master level in only one non-ruling Arcanum instead of one of each. - Gnosis 4 - Can have Adept AND Master level in one each non-ruling Arcana instead of two each. - Gnosis 5 - Can have Master level in only one non-ruling Arcanum. The only thing this does is require you to increase your Gnosis a little higher than usual. It doesn't force you to buy up the first ones before you buy up the later ones. There's not much in the way of thematic reinforcement with that. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:24 PM, David Blackwell wrote: > These rules are not at all clear in TT. The two sentences you are quoting > are the same rules Chris and I are talking about. > > In the chart those two sentences are describing, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd > arcana are listed with explicit limits based on Gnosis. Therefore, according > to the restriction in that second sentence, your ruling arcana have to > occupy two of the first three columns on the chart. MET makes that clear. > > There was a storyteller decision early in the chronicle that the sentence: > "Two of his first three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" did > not apply to the chart, but to starting Arcana dots... this is a fairly odd > place to put the restriction if that was the intent, but that is how it was > ruled. Because of this decision, when MET made the intent clear we were > already painted into a corner. So the addendum changes the wording so it > explicitly applies to starting dots only. > > David Blackwell > US2002021120 > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/911ecd69/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 20:37:35 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Wed Mar 5 20:38:53 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> Actually, it doesn't eliminate it at all. It raises the Gnosis requirement from 5 to 7. Not a huge deal as these things go. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:43 PM, christopher buser wrote: > -nods- It ties Arcana into Path in much the same way Disciplines are to > Clan, or Gifts are to Auspice. You come to expect X to be skilled with Y, or > at least be more skilled than your average not-X. Stereotypes typically > exist for a reason, after all. The "highest 2 out of 3" still gives you some > flexibility, allowing a Thrysus to be either a Life Master -and- a Master of > something besides Spirit, or a Spirit Master -and- a Master of something > besides Spirit, but eliminates the "Yeah, I'm a Thrysus, with Life 2, Spirit > 2, and Death, Forces, and Space at 5. So what?" from occuring. > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/128d20c1/attachment.html From ragabash13 at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 22:09:13 2008 From: ragabash13 at gmail.com (John "Decker" Pool) Date: Wed Mar 5 22:10:28 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <20010A70-3481-47DB-8D19-5CAD4D40807D@mac.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> Raising from Gnosis 5 to 7 is a big deal in just about every regard, including the 104 XP it costs to raise it. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > Actually, it doesn't eliminate it at all. It raises the Gnosis requirement > from 5 to 7. Not a huge deal as these things go. -- John "Decker" Pool DST of Denver, CO US2002022527 From rulesninja at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 22:34:58 2008 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Wed Mar 5 22:36:13 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240803051934g1f377048yaeea80f914cc3486@mail.gmail.com> Tiffany, We're using the same rules we've been using since the start of the chronicle. We actually adjusted the rules in the MET book to match those found in the TT book so as to not force everyone to have to change which arcanum they have mastered. Your PCs path is tied to the nature of their magic. Even if your PC has no interest in learning one of your two ruling arcana, you awaken knowing at least some of it. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Tiffany Pusatello < purplepuddlenut@gmail.com> wrote: > So in the MET Mage book on Page 62 it reads just below a table "Two of his > highest three Arcana must always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" in the > addendum it reads > > *Arcana Mastery [A.5.01] > > The sentence on page 62 that says "Two of his highest three Arcana must > always be from his Path's Ruling Arcana" is replaced with "Two of his first > three Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana".* > > I had a player read this last night and just go up in arms upset.She asked > me why the ruling was this way and it made ZERO sense to her. I tried for 30 > minutes to explain to her why this ruling was the way it was and frankly, I > couldn't really give her a good reason besides "this is what the cam has > ruled" She says that if your an Obrimos, you should be working hardiest on > Forces and Prime. Period. I THINK she also is saying that you should be > working on them both, not just one or why would you be that path? That is > what your better at, that is what you are going to study, everything else is > lower priority Say Forces 5, Mind 5 and prime 4 would be satisfactory to > her. Or maybe prime 3. > > I am fine with the Cam ruling, however she makes a good point. Why be > Obrimos if you only plan to have a dot of prime and forces? Why be a Thyrsus > if you don't like Spirit? > -- > Tiffany Pusatello > Cam ID:US2006027438 > VST: Mage: The Awakening > PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Dan Wright US2002021042 Domain Storyteller - OKC http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/ab64fdf0/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 23:30:23 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Wed Mar 5 23:31:41 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> Compare that to the 273 it takes to achieve triple-mastery in non-ruling Arcana (assuming you start with 3 in a non-ruling and go with just Common), and it's not so big a deal if you're capable of that aspect anyway. It's not even a 50% increase on the XP required for the cheapest possible method. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 10:09 PM, John Decker Pool wrote: > Raising from Gnosis 5 to 7 is a big deal in just about every regard, > including the 104 XP it costs to raise it. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080305/ed982c20/attachment.html From purplepuddlenut at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 11:29:09 2008 From: purplepuddlenut at gmail.com (Tiffany Pusatello) Date: Thu Mar 6 11:30:26 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage Message-ID: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> Is there a way to hide that your a Mage? Like a rote or something to hide from other Mages that your a Mage? I thought there was a Merit that made it harder but I wasn't sure if there was anything else. -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/046ceb1d/attachment.html From mathias.wangai at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 11:31:32 2008 From: mathias.wangai at gmail.com (mathias.wangai@gmail.com) Date: Thu Mar 6 11:33:08 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1914507259-1204821108-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-865186816-@bxe127.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> There is a Prime 2 effect called Alter Aura, where you can change your aura to a sleepers, completely hide it, or even dispell it for a time. Michael Munene US2007049853 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Tiffany Pusatello" Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:29:09 To:Awakening-Rules Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage Is there a way to hide that your a Mage? Like a rote or something to hide from other Mages that your a Mage? I thought there was a Merit that made it harder but I wasn't sure if there was anything else. -- Tiffany Pusatello Cam ID:US2006027438 VST: Mage: The Awakening PurplePuddleNut at gmail (dot) com _______________________________________________ Awakening-rules mailing list Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 11:35:05 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu Mar 6 11:36:39 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> Occultation makes it harder to read your aura and resonance, but that's not the same as hiding your Awakened status. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Tiffany Pusatello < purplepuddlenut@gmail.com> wrote: > Is there a way to hide that your a Mage? Like a rote or something to hide > from other Mages that your a Mage? I thought there was a Merit that made it > harder but I wasn't sure if there was anything else. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/8827032c/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 12:25:11 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu Mar 6 12:26:30 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051133n7d3c9721k81ec3dbb49f4088f@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> I just heard back from Bill Bridges, the Mage developer. "It refers to Arcana, not columns. It's simply reiterating the same rule given during character creation: two of the character's three initial Arcana must be from his Path's Ruling Arcana." That man rocks. I didn't actually expect an answer back. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/d8f25490/attachment-0001.html From ghostofthewired at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 12:43:48 2008 From: ghostofthewired at gmail.com (Spencer McAtee) Date: Thu Mar 6 12:45:05 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I would say a combination of occultaion, and alter aura is a good bet. Occultation 3 gives them a -3 to read your aura, scry on you, tell who cast your spells ect Change aura makes it so that they have to get above the amount of success for them to tell you are not what ever aura you have masked. To tell that you have that spell up they will need to have prime sight with successes above that. With the system the way it is you could extended cast this spell if you have the rote and get more then 5 successes. Someone just peering at you is not going to get anywhere near that many successes, unless they of course extended casted it and have the rote for prime sight. even if they did that all they could tell is that you have a "change aura" spell on your self. All in all if someone is already at a -3 to see figure it out, then has to have a extended cast prime sight on, it usually is a sure thing. I actually had a concept for a sleepwalker infiltrator charicter using that concept. Granted I didn't count in the people who have Gnosis 6+ who have stats above 6 but it is still usually a done deal. Spencer McAtee US2006129186 515 Night Life -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/a6d30aa9/attachment.html From ghostofthewired at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 12:56:20 2008 From: ghostofthewired at gmail.com (Spencer McAtee) Date: Thu Mar 6 13:05:54 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So does this mean that MET is wrong, or is it just a cam ruling? I really wish i don't have to buy up forces any higher then i have it already Spencer McAtee US2006129186 515 Night Life -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/32717a0d/attachment.html From dspawlowski at mac.com Thu Mar 6 13:08:05 2008 From: dspawlowski at mac.com (Daniel Pawlowski) Date: Thu Mar 6 13:10:11 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <40c3f3440803051141u4a9488abn4c2df9d94006550c@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <995C7CB8-F2A3-4503-9517-A348A81EB103@mac.com> Niether are "wrong" per say. The Addendum is just grandfathering a rule to maintain continuity. The entry in the MET book is not a typo, but it is inconsistent with the chronicle as it has been. Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) On Mar 6, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Spencer McAtee wrote: > So does this mean that MET is wrong, or is it just a cam ruling? > > I really wish i don't have to buy up forces any higher then i have > it already > > Spencer McAtee > US2006129186 > 515 Night Life > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/2bab7c49/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 15:38:39 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu Mar 6 15:40:00 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051155g4bcf467bo73d7c795110085b7@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803061238m487c0885n601a0a6a07d328c6@mail.gmail.com> It's not wrong, just different. And you never have to buy higher Arcana, just Gnosis. And only if you're maxing (or close to maxing) multiple non-Ruling Arcana. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Spencer McAtee wrote: > So does this mean that MET is wrong, or is it just a cam ruling? > > I really wish i don't have to buy up forces any higher then i have it > already > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/a9fff4e0/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 15:43:54 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu Mar 6 15:45:12 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Actually, if you have a 16 pool for the rote and you chant in High Speech for a +2, and then double-ten, you can get 6 in an instant action without having higher than Gnosis 3 (which you need for the 5th dot in an Arcanum). Rare, yes, but still possible. So aside from that 1% chance of possible exception, I agree completely. (Nitpicking is genetic, sorry.) On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Spencer McAtee wrote: > I would say a combination of occultaion, and alter aura is a good bet. > > Occultation 3 gives them a -3 to read your aura, scry on you, tell who > cast your spells ect > > Change aura makes it so that they have to get above the amount of success > for them to tell you are not what ever aura you have masked. To tell that > you have that spell up they will need to have prime sight with successes > above that. > > With the system the way it is you could extended cast this spell if you > have the rote and get more then 5 successes. Someone just peering at you is > not going to get anywhere near that many successes, unless they of course > extended casted it and have the rote for prime sight. even if they did that > all they could tell is that you have a "change aura" spell on your self. > > All in all if someone is already at a -3 to see figure it out, then has to > have a extended cast prime sight on, it usually is a sure thing. > > I actually had a concept for a sleepwalker infiltrator charicter using > that concept. > > Granted I didn't count in the people who have Gnosis 6+ who have stats > above 6 but it is still usually a done deal. > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/45d229e0/attachment.html From swiftone at swiftone.org Thu Mar 6 15:44:40 2008 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Thu Mar 6 15:46:00 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803061238m487c0885n601a0a6a07d328c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061238m487c0885n601a0a6a07d328c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960803061244g203ac582o534a473dd53988d8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > It's not wrong, just different. And you never have to buy higher Arcana, > just Gnosis. And only if you're maxing (or close to maxing) multiple > non-Ruling Arcana. Gnosis limits more than just mastery, that's just the most commonly encountered issue. Try making a Gnosis 1 with Adept in a lot of Arcana and you'll have issues as well. -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From andrewmcam at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 15:55:12 2008 From: andrewmcam at gmail.com (Andrew McGregor) Date: Thu Mar 6 15:56:43 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then you may scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if they are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it doesn't matter what the potency is. On 3/6/08, Eric Moore wrote: > Actually, if you have a 16 pool for the rote and you chant in High Speech > for a +2, and then double-ten, you can get 6 in an instant action without > having higher than Gnosis 3 (which you need for the 5th dot in an Arcanum). > Rare, yes, but still possible. So aside from that 1% chance of possible > exception, I agree completely. (Nitpicking is genetic, sorry.) > -- Andrew McGregor US2002021878 From dspawlowski at mac.com Thu Mar 6 15:59:56 2008 From: dspawlowski at mac.com (Daniel Pawlowski) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:01:50 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Remember that unless you have a Global approval for Archmastery, Potency is limited to 5 at max due to the following: "Limitations to Bonuses and Traits [A.6.04] No single Trait or bonus created by a spell can exceed the level of the Caster?s relevant Arcanum. This only applies to Traits or bonuses that are variable based on successes. It is not applicable to summoned creatures." Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being > used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be > sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to > detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature > type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the > occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then you may > scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if they > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > doesn't matter what the potency is. From mindwright at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:10:24 2008 From: mindwright at gmail.com (David Blackwell) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:11:40 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Potency is a Factor, not a Trait or Bonus. David Blackwell US2002021120 On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > Remember that unless you have a Global approval for Archmastery, > Potency is limited to 5 at max due to the following: > "Limitations to Bonuses and Traits [A.6.04] > > No single Trait or bonus created by a spell can exceed the level of > the Caster's relevant Arcanum. This only applies to Traits or bonuses > that are variable based on successes. It is not applicable to > summoned creatures." > > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > > > Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being > > used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be > > sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to > > detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature > > type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the > > occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then you may > > scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if they > > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > > doesn't matter what the potency is. > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/79d645c7/attachment.html From swiftone at swiftone.org Thu Mar 6 16:13:16 2008 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:14:35 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960803061313j15f35c18gb7fbb0096aa4bb2f@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > doesn't matter what the potency is. If you're trying to look "normal" though, that's not the best way :) -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From andrewmcam at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:15:21 2008 From: andrewmcam at gmail.com (Andrew McGregor) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:16:38 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <6a6bb9960803061313j15f35c18gb7fbb0096aa4bb2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> <6a6bb9960803061313j15f35c18gb7fbb0096aa4bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: True. On 3/6/08, Brett Ritter wrote: > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > > doesn't matter what the potency is. > > If you're trying to look "normal" though, that's not the best way :) > > -- > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne > US2003011110 > swiftone@swiftone.org > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > -- Andrew McGregor US2002021878 From dspawlowski at mac.com Thu Mar 6 16:16:19 2008 From: dspawlowski at mac.com (Daniel Pawlowski) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:18:13 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> There seriously needs to be a published standard vocabulary. Factor and trait are pretty much the same thing generally. Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) On Mar 6, 2008, at 4:10 PM, David Blackwell wrote: > Potency is a Factor, not a Trait or Bonus. > > David Blackwell > US2002021120 > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Daniel Pawlowski > wrote: > Remember that unless you have a Global approval for Archmastery, > Potency is limited to 5 at max due to the following: > "Limitations to Bonuses and Traits [A.6.04] > > No single Trait or bonus created by a spell can exceed the level of > the Caster's relevant Arcanum. This only applies to Traits or bonuses > that are variable based on successes. It is not applicable to > summoned creatures." > > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > > > Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being > > used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be > > sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to > > detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature > > type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the > > occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then > you may > > scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if > they > > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > > doesn't matter what the potency is. > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/3ce94906/attachment-0001.html From andrewmcam at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:22:06 2008 From: andrewmcam at gmail.com (Andrew McGregor) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:23:22 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> Message-ID: Trait and Factor are both defined. One is in the MET book. The other is in the Mage book. On 3/6/08, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > There seriously needs to be a published standard vocabulary. Factor and > trait are pretty much the same thing generally. > > > > > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 4:10 PM, David Blackwell wrote: > > Potency is a Factor, not a Trait or Bonus. > > David Blackwell > US2002021120 > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Daniel Pawlowski > wrote: > > Remember that unless you have a Global approval for Archmastery, > > Potency is limited to 5 at max due to the following: > > "Limitations to Bonuses and Traits [A.6.04] > > > > No single Trait or bonus created by a spell can exceed the level of > > the Caster's relevant Arcanum. This only applies to Traits or bonuses > > that are variable based on successes. It is not applicable to > > summoned creatures." > > > > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > > > > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > > > > > Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being > > > used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be > > > sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to > > > detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature > > > type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the > > > occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then you may > > > scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if they > > > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > > > doesn't matter what the potency is. > > _______________________________________________ > > Awakening-rules mailing list > > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > > > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Andrew McGregor US2002021878 From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:28:00 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:29:19 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803061328p580c8ac3m70b0bb725ec7720d@mail.gmail.com> This much I'll agree with. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > There seriously needs to be a published standard vocabulary. > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/30dde1fd/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:33:54 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:35:12 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <6a6bb9960803061244g203ac582o534a473dd53988d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061238m487c0885n601a0a6a07d328c6@mail.gmail.com> <6a6bb9960803061244g203ac582o534a473dd53988d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803061333v4907c110vb0ca29cbd1b6ad81@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, like having your character desanctioned. You can't have Adept level in any Arcanum at Gnosis 1. I didn't refer at all to Mastery in that email, I said "maxing". 3 dots each is your max for 4 Arcana at Gnosis 1, and another 3 Arcana are maxed at 2 dots each, and the final 3 Arcana are maxed at 1 dot each. That's all I was talking about, not gaining multiple Mastery. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Brett Ritter wrote: > Gnosis limits more than just mastery, that's just the most commonly > encountered issue. Try making a Gnosis 1 with Adept in a lot of Arcana and > you'll have issues as well. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/4ea07b8c/attachment.html From swiftone at swiftone.org Thu Mar 6 16:40:55 2008 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:42:11 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Arcana Mastery Page 62 of the MET book In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803061333v4907c110vb0ca29cbd1b6ad81@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803051052m25ca3396w4a4a506a8d7dee19@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803051737v5dff6c33r27c54d325ff0f2fa@mail.gmail.com> <584cf3b00803051909v3b0f7ac1r5b5550f9d23a8e90@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803052030i196b7f87ke0b86a7d34ebec44@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060925v79100110r32e2b464f2b7ce53@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061238m487c0885n601a0a6a07d328c6@mail.gmail.com> <6a6bb9960803061244g203ac582o534a473dd53988d8@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061333v4907c110vb0ca29cbd1b6ad81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960803061340v3b44516fl73c7164c26e5e027@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > I didn't refer at all to Mastery in that email, I said "maxing". So you did, my bad. -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From thebuser at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:59:05 2008 From: thebuser at gmail.com (christopher buser) Date: Thu Mar 6 17:00:22 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Apologies, but I've never seen this interpretation applied to Potency, and I've never heard of it enforced at any game. You might want to kick that up the chain to be answered in a ST report. On 3/6/08, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > > Remember that unless you have a Global approval for Archmastery, > Potency is limited to 5 at max due to the following: > "Limitations to Bonuses and Traits [A.6.04] > > No single Trait or bonus created by a spell can exceed the level of > the Caster's relevant Arcanum. This only applies to Traits or bonuses > that are variable based on successes. It is not applicable to > summoned creatures." > > Dan Pawlowski (US2002045158) > VST: Mage DC(VA-0-20-D) > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > > > Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being > > used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be > > sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to > > detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature > > type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the > > occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then you may > > scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if they > > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > > doesn't matter what the potency is. > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > -- Chris Buser US National Ombudsman US2002021013 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/607d9369/attachment.html From swiftone at swiftone.org Thu Mar 6 17:11:19 2008 From: swiftone at swiftone.org (Brett Ritter) Date: Thu Mar 6 17:12:40 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> Message-ID: <6a6bb9960803061411l128213dbpc24eb8fa7c83667b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > There seriously needs to be a published standard vocabulary. Factor and > trait are pretty much the same thing generally. I'm in agreement that Factors are defined to be different than Traits (note, however, that the benefit from a high Potency can be limited. For example, a Potency 12 Body Control (Life 2) spell would grant a max of +5 to initiative (based on your Life Arcana), not +12. What other points (be they defined in some obscure part of the rulebook or not) would you like to see clearly stated and circulated? -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne US2003011110 swiftone@swiftone.org From ghostofthewired at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 17:12:07 2008 From: ghostofthewired at gmail.com (Spencer McAtee) Date: Thu Mar 6 17:13:24 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: err potency is not a trait factors and traits are different, if that was so, then mage would be a very different game, that would mean you could not outright be able to make something have a indefinite duration, being that is a advanced duration factor of 10. you can have a potency of high then 5 if you have the rote, and you extended cast it. Spencer McAtee US2006129186 515 Night Life -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080306/7fadab9f/attachment-0001.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 18:01:13 2008 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Thu Mar 6 18:02:29 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240803061501v41c603c3m4470ed9bb2c3f96c@mail.gmail.com> Traits are things like bonuses to stats directly (honing the form). Bonuses add to tests but not directly to a stat. ("+5 to all tests involving strength") On 3/6/08, Spencer McAtee wrote: > err potency is not a trait factors and traits are different, if that was so, > then mage would be a very different game, that would mean you could not > outright be able to make something have a indefinite duration, being that is > a advanced duration factor of 10. you can have a potency of high then 5 if > you have the rote, and you extended cast it. > > > Spencer McAtee > US2006129186 > 515 Night Life > -- Dan Wright US2002021042 Domain Storyteller - OKC http://www.cam-wiki.org From mmex at digitalfreaks.org Thu Mar 6 18:55:58 2008 From: mmex at digitalfreaks.org (Mathew Monroe) Date: Thu Mar 6 18:57:16 2008 Subject: Maxing Spell Traits was Re: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: <6a6bb9960803061411l128213dbpc24eb8fa7c83667b@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> <25D111BB-A8C0-414F-AAC5-020F11A05F10@mac.com> <6a6bb9960803061411l128213dbpc24eb8fa7c83667b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47D0848E.4080909@digitalfreaks.org> Brett Ritter wrote: > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Daniel Pawlowski wrote: > >> There seriously needs to be a published standard vocabulary. Factor and >> trait are pretty much the same thing generally. >> > > I'm in agreement that Factors are defined to be different than Traits > (note, however, that the benefit from a high Potency can be limited. > For example, a Potency 12 Body Control (Life 2) spell would grant a > max of +5 to initiative (based on your Life Arcana), not +12. > > What other points (be they defined in some obscure part of the > rulebook or not) would you like to see clearly stated and circulated? > > Exactly. You can have as high a potency as you want, but the bonus is capped. Mathew Monroe US2002034186 From delwin at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 15:46:02 2008 From: delwin at gmail.com (David Sauter) Date: Tue Mar 11 15:47:22 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Hiding that your a Mage In-Reply-To: References: <40c3f3440803060829o1c948b33rd5d36295c2446a48@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803060835g34199ca5x86902abd07829bb4@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803061243s735f9582u94d8acaacf525ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <945cfca20803111246t283cbdeeofd1d0391c7b697ed@mail.gmail.com> This gets more complicated when Spell Cloaks come into play. Cast Alter Aura, and have all spells you have up spell cloaked. Now Unseen Senses won't ping (which is a much quicker way to detect Supernaturals and requires no spells to be up on the detector's part). David Sauter US2002021140 On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Andrew McGregor wrote: > Actually it depends purely on the potency ofr the mage sight being > used not the successes gained on the scrutiny check. You must be > sucessful using Supernal Vision (only Supernal Vision can be used to > detect if you are a mage since it is the thing to determine creature > type). You compare the potency of the sight vs the potency of the > occluding spell. If the sight exceeds the occluding spell then you may > scrutinize the person. If you get 1 success then you can tell if they > are a mage. The best thing to do is have your aura slain, then it > doesn't matter what the potency is. > > > On 3/6/08, Eric Moore wrote: > > Actually, if you have a 16 pool for the rote and you chant in High Speech > > for a +2, and then double-ten, you can get 6 in an instant action without > > having higher than Gnosis 3 (which you need for the 5th dot in an Arcanum). > > Rare, yes, but still possible. So aside from that 1% chance of possible > > exception, I agree completely. (Nitpicking is genetic, sorry.) > > > > -- > Andrew McGregor > US2002021878 > > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > -- ------ David S From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 18:33:09 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Tue Mar 11 18:34:30 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111139h69ca5fbw6b7f55ff768ba59e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111157n1e54c885w40874a98d15e792b@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111213h2905b75s21becc0f54653826@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111256x4bf0671hea4824267e8acb63@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> Moved to the rules list per request. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM, m0rtis wrote: > Eric, > > These are all arguments made a few months ago on the awakening-rules list. > The arguments lead to Kevin's ruling that Scry is a Covert by it's very own > description, and going by the general rule that the specific rule overrules > the general one, that Scry is Covert when used for it's primary purpose. That's nice. I still haven't seen anything in the rules to support this, so the change (and it is still a change) needs to be placed in the Addendum to be available to everyone. There are a great many spells listed as covert. All of them, without exception, become vulgar when cast sympathetically. There is no specific exception listed for Scrying. Scrying across a room to listen in on conversations or read a book over someone's shoulder is still covert. Doing so from more than 200 yards or when you can't directly perceive them becomes vulgar. Also, you aren't casting sympathetically. You're not targeting someone with > the spell (no resistance pool or trait and there is a difference between > using the sympathetic modifiers and sympathetic casting). You're opening a > window to look someplace. Now, casting through that window is sympathetic > casting. > This doesn't mean the spell isn't a sympathetic spell. Otherwise, any area affecting spell doesn't require Space 2 because you aren't targeting someone with the spell. You are still targeting a location. The sympathetic casting rules state that using scrying outside your sensory range is casting sympathetically. Saying that scrying isn't sympathetic is completely false. Moreover, casting through the window is what happens for the guy on the other end; it obviates the need for Space 2 for the persons in the area being scryed upon. The only benefit for the person scrying is that they see what's happening. They don't actually cast through the window. Ultimately, we're not rehashing any new ground here. > Then no change to the rules or "clarification" should have been made making Scrying covert when cast sympathetically. The rules don't support it. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/a17b857b/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 18:35:46 2008 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Tue Mar 11 18:37:07 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111139h69ca5fbw6b7f55ff768ba59e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111157n1e54c885w40874a98d15e792b@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111213h2905b75s21becc0f54653826@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111256x4bf0671hea4824267e8acb63@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> Eric, It's simple. There was some confusion on this, we asked Kevin to weigh in. He asked the MET developer who said it was covert. It's not a change. There's several ways to look at the rules on this, and we asked for a clarification. We got it. End of case, honestly. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > Moved to the rules list per request. > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM, m0rtis wrote: > > > Eric, > > > > These are all arguments made a few months ago on the awakening-rules > > list. The arguments lead to Kevin's ruling that Scry is a Covert by it's > > very own description, and going by the general rule that the specific rule > > overrules the general one, that Scry is Covert when used for it's primary > > purpose. > > > That's nice. I still haven't seen anything in the rules to support this, > so the change (and it is still a change) needs to be placed in the Addendum > to be available to everyone. There are a great many spells listed as covert. > All of them, without exception, become vulgar when cast sympathetically. > There is no specific exception listed for Scrying. Scrying across a room to > listen in on conversations or read a book over someone's shoulder is still > covert. Doing so from more than 200 yards or when you can't directly > perceive them becomes vulgar. > > Also, you aren't casting sympathetically. You're not targeting someone > > with the spell (no resistance pool or trait and there is a difference > > between using the sympathetic modifiers and sympathetic casting). You're > > opening a window to look someplace. Now, casting through that window is > > sympathetic casting. > > > > This doesn't mean the spell isn't a sympathetic spell. Otherwise, any area > affecting spell doesn't require Space 2 because you aren't targeting someone > with the spell. You are still targeting a location. The sympathetic casting > rules state that using scrying outside your sensory range is casting > sympathetically. Saying that scrying isn't sympathetic is completely false. > > Moreover, casting through the window is what happens for the guy on the > other end; it obviates the need for Space 2 for the persons in the area > being scryed upon. The only benefit for the person scrying is that they see > what's happening. They don't actually cast through the window. > > Ultimately, we're not rehashing any new ground here. > > > > Then no change to the rules or "clarification" should have been made > making Scrying covert when cast sympathetically. The rules don't support it. > > > -- > Eric Moore > US2004112432 > I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. > You are in my Monkeysphere. > > _______________________________________________ > Awakening-rules mailing list > Awakening-rules@cammail.white-wolf.com > http://cammail.white-wolf.com/mailman/listinfo/awakening-rules > > -- Dan Wright US2002021042 Domain Storyteller - OKC http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/df0c77b3/attachment-0001.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 19:29:54 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Tue Mar 11 19:31:16 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111139h69ca5fbw6b7f55ff768ba59e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111157n1e54c885w40874a98d15e792b@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111213h2905b75s21becc0f54653826@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111256x4bf0671hea4824267e8acb63@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> Dan, There's nothing in the rules to indicate this. There isn't any confusion in the rules that I can find, since the section on sympathetic casting says scrying works as normal for sympathetic spellcasting that doesn't affect a target directly. Please point out to me where this leaves room for interpretation, specifically this interpretation. Until then, since it's not in the Addendum, the books, or the FAQ, my Domain won't be using this. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:35 PM, m0rtis wrote: > It's simple. There was some confusion on this, we asked Kevin to weigh in. > He asked the MET developer who said it was covert. > > It's not a change. There's several ways to look at the rules on this, and > we asked for a clarification. We got it. End of case, honestly. > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/242b3cc8/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 19:33:41 2008 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Tue Mar 11 19:35:03 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111157n1e54c885w40874a98d15e792b@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111213h2905b75s21becc0f54653826@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111256x4bf0671hea4824267e8acb63@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > Dan, > > There's nothing in the rules to indicate this. There isn't any confusion > in the rules that I can find, since the section on sympathetic casting says > scrying works as normal for sympathetic spellcasting that doesn't affect a > target directly. Please point out to me where this leaves room for > interpretation, specifically this interpretation. Until then, since it's not > in the Addendum, the books, or the FAQ, my Domain won't be using this. > Eric, Knowingly ignoring a rule that has been clarified by Global can get you into trouble. It's happened elsewhere before. I'd be careful before delving into the realm of willful ignorance. Kevin and the MET developer (as well as others) agree that the intent of the spell, the specific rule of the spell, says it's covert, so it's covert to use regardless of what you're scrying on. What that changed? I suggest writing a suggestion to the AMST with why you think it should be ruled in the opposite way (against the intent of the author). -- Dan Wright US2002021042 Domain Storyteller - OKC http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/cabba9d1/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 19:45:44 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Tue Mar 11 19:47:05 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111213h2905b75s21becc0f54653826@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111256x4bf0671hea4824267e8acb63@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> Dan, I appreciate your concern. I'm well aware of the risk I'm taking, but it's something I feel I have to do for the good of the local game and for consistency within the rules. I mean no offense to Eddy when I point this out, but he's not the author of that spell. He's the one who converted the system for Mind's Eye Theatre. If we had clarification from the author of the spell, whom I presume to be Bill Bridges (as he headed up the development of the magic system as a whole), then I'd agree to drop it. I value his opinion, but I don't give it any weight beyond "this guy I trust says..." (You fit into that as well, just so you know.) Until I see that, or something in the official rules we use, I can't use this in good conscience. For the record, even if it's just a clarification, it still has to be in one of those documents to be official, because there's a very small list of documents we're allowed to use. Right now, even with the clarification from Kevin and Eddy, it's still on the local ST to interpret the spell. Even though I personally can't figure out why this would be interpreted as the way the rules indicate the spell to work, if STs choose to run it that way, that's on them. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:33 PM, m0rtis wrote: > Eric, > > Knowingly ignoring a rule that has been clarified by Global can get you > into trouble. It's happened elsewhere before. I'd be careful before delving > into the realm of willful ignorance. > > Kevin and the MET developer (as well as others) agree that the intent of > the spell, the specific rule of the spell, says it's covert, so it's covert > to use regardless of what you're scrying on. What that changed? I suggest > writing a suggestion to the AMST with why you think it should be ruled in > the opposite way (against the intent of the author). > -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/c8f269ca/attachment.html From rulesninja at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 19:55:51 2008 From: rulesninja at gmail.com (m0rtis) Date: Tue Mar 11 19:57:13 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111256x4bf0671hea4824267e8acb63@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> Eric, No amount of trying to force your interpretation on us because you disagree with what every other ST (and developer) who's weighed in on this matter has to say will change this. It's been ruled otherwise. If you rule in the opposite, and your players appeal, I'm certain they'll succeed. At some point you just have to concede that your view isnt the view of the rest of the game's storytellers. It happens to all of us. Clarifications don't need to be in Addendum or FAQ to be official or right. If you know about the clarification and ignore it, you're in direct violation of the rules. So, your choice. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Eric Moore wrote: > Dan, > > I appreciate your concern. I'm well aware of the risk I'm taking, but it's > something I feel I have to do for the good of the local game and for > consistency within the rules. > > I mean no offense to Eddy when I point this out, but he's not the author > of that spell. He's the one who converted the system for Mind's Eye Theatre. > If we had clarification from the author of the spell, whom I presume to be > Bill Bridges (as he headed up the development of the magic system as a > whole), then I'd agree to drop it. I value his opinion, but I don't give it > any weight beyond "this guy I trust says..." (You fit into that as well, > just so you know.) Until I see that, or something in the official rules we > use, I can't use this in good conscience. For the record, even if it's just > a clarification, it still has to be in one of those documents to be > official, because there's a very small list of documents we're allowed to > use. Right now, even with the clarification from Kevin and Eddy, it's still > on the local ST to interpret the spell. > > Even though I personally can't figure out why this would be interpreted as > the way the rules indicate the spell to work, if STs choose to run it that > way, that's on them. -- Dan Wright US2002021042 Domain Storyteller - OKC http://www.cam-wiki.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/58388229/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 20:10:07 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Tue Mar 11 20:11:28 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111315s49478175t4c45f7449977764e@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:55 PM, m0rtis wrote: > No amount of trying to force your interpretation on us because you > disagree with what every other ST (and developer) who's weighed in on this > matter has to say will change this. > I'm not trying to do this, Dan. I'm trying to figure out why it was ruled this way. There's a vast difference. Without that knowledge, I can't change my own viewpoint on it, and I can't try to change anyone else's. The "clarification" is in direct violation of the rulebook, and I still don't know why, aside from it's aspect being listed as covert and it is more often cast sympathetically than at sensory range, so we gave it an exception to make it easier on players who want to use it. Tell you what. I'll ping Bill Bridges, and see if he'll weigh in on this. If he tells me I'm wrong, I'll drop it after publicly apologizing. I don't like doing this again because I did it not long ago with the whole Arcana Mastery chart thing, but I'll try the puppy dog eyes to keep him from getting annoyed. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/8c6242ae/attachment-0001.html From amst.awakening at googlemail.com Tue Mar 11 20:59:33 2008 From: amst.awakening at googlemail.com (Kevin Drugan - AMST Awakening) Date: Tue Mar 11 21:01:01 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16e8d0ab0803111759s3d371196id6e00542e016dba8@mail.gmail.com> On 12/03/2008, Eric Moore wrote: > Tell you what. I'll ping Bill Bridges, and see if he'll weigh in on this. If > he tells me I'm wrong, I'll drop it after publicly apologizing. I don't like > doing this again because I did it not long ago with the whole Arcana Mastery > chart thing, but I'll try the puppy dog eyes to keep him from getting > annoyed. Eric, With all due respect, it isn't Bill's job to make clarifications about the Minds Eye Theatre Awakening rules. That would be Eddy Webb. Bill developed the Tabletop book. -- Kevin Drugan UK98040591 AMST Awakening From delwin at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 21:02:34 2008 From: delwin at gmail.com (David Sauter) Date: Tue Mar 11 21:03:56 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111325j4e490f07ib9132214ea0dcb12@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <945cfca20803111802k3a5e7f45u5d83bef6c40283c8@mail.gmail.com> Eric, Take MET Awakening. Remove the Sympathetic section completely and all references to it. See if Scry still works as written. David Sauter US2002021140 From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 22:36:39 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Tue Mar 11 22:38:01 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <945cfca20803111802k3a5e7f45u5d83bef6c40283c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> <945cfca20803111802k3a5e7f45u5d83bef6c40283c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803111936l6b4213d8g39814aea016a7fc0@mail.gmail.com> Yes and no. Since there's reference to the sympathetic casting rules in the spell itself, that part of the spell "as written" is removed. However, because there's no requirement for the spell to be cast sympathetically (even keeping the reference within the spell), then you can still cast it normally. Normally meaning remote viewing places that are within sensory range but out of earshot or too far to touch or taste for yourself. Especially things that might be dangerous. ("Hmm... that tea tastes like almonds. Someone want to check it for cyanide?") Out of curiousity, why is this relevant? Even if it's a pretty fun exercise. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, David Sauter wrote: > Eric, > > Take MET Awakening. > > Remove the Sympathetic section completely and all references to it. > > See if Scry still works as written. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/f9fd3ca6/attachment.html From eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 22:39:21 2008 From: eric.matthew.moore at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Tue Mar 11 22:40:44 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <16e8d0ab0803111759s3d371196id6e00542e016dba8@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111333m220e88c7u8f3531b7c3998133@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111759s3d371196id6e00542e016dba8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8efd93220803111939k307b877as493bfa015764ae8e@mail.gmail.com> Point noted. However, I've already pmed him and am awaiting a reply. I'll keep my word about the response. If that was the way the spell originally worked and Eddy didn't change the wording at all, could I then convince you to put it in the Addendum? On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Kevin Drugan - AMST Awakening < amst.awakening@googlemail.com> wrote: > Eric, > > With all due respect, it isn't Bill's job to make clarifications about the > Minds Eye Theatre Awakening rules. That would be Eddy Webb. Bill developed > the Tabletop book. -- Eric Moore US2004112432 I have a promise to keep: Caelestis Proles. You are in my Monkeysphere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://cammail.white-wolf.com/pipermail/awakening-rules/attachments/20080311/d9e7ef1a/attachment.html From electrodyne at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 01:44:31 2008 From: electrodyne at gmail.com (John Ward) Date: Wed Mar 12 01:45:55 2008 Subject: [Awakening-rules] Re: [Mysterium-ooc] Re: [Mysterium] Disciples of Time - A new Rote (Temporal Threads) OOC In-Reply-To: <8efd93220803111939k307b877as493bfa015764ae8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <8efd93220803111133v49c94586wf41ce0b592c06856@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111533q59547d41t4e361b9fe23aef4e@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111535g2fe88109pf7ec20f82fecdc2f@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111629v57559bcfl78ae9bcbebcbe555@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111633t38d333a0tb1ebe97f36e6fdd3@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111645y29000095i59d7f8ea5cb8a46c@mail.gmail.com> <49ffd2240803111655u7b8d3e57obdae51866374a5de@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111710o62bb0403w3a950e3af71979de@mail.gmail.com> <16e8d0ab0803111759s3d371196id6e00542e016dba8@mail.gmail.com> <8efd93220803111939k307b877as493bfa015764ae8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8ba9df090803112244n1ca45028y6315224dc84df50f@mail.gmail.com> Scrying and Sympathy: Scry is a covert spell, just like every other *sensory* spell. Yes, Scry is a sensory spell. Scry *can* in fact be made vulgar - let's have some fun with this - PC's chosen simply because this iteration of this discussion started on the Mysterium-OOC list :) Adrastos and San walk into a bar. Adrastos is a Space Ninja. One hour, fifteen pitchers, and several rounds of shots later, they see Morior and Zohar walk into the bar and our heroes (Adrastos and San) decide to have some fun. Zohar has Striking Looks so Adrastos decides to check out her butt. She's sitting all the way across the room and around a corner, so Adrastos needs to Scry to get a better view. This Scry is a sensory spell that uses the sympathy chart to apply a penalty to Adrastos' casting - in this case a -4 penalty since he's spent many a drunken night in the spot from which he would like to have his Scry's point of view, but he can't quite spot it from his current location. Adrastos spends a few moments grinning like an idiot, and San asks what the hell he's smirking at. Adrastos casts a second Scry, this time putting the image onto San's wristwatch (out of Adrastos' view). The sympathy penalty for the Scry itself is still a -4 (since he's using the same POV for the Scry as the previous casting) but an additional penalty of -8 will be levied since he's only briefly seen San's watch - San wisely keeps it hidden from the known pickpocket. Adrastos asks San if he knows the time, San looks, and begins drunkenly giggling also, due to the (sympathetically placed/cast) second Scry cast, the image now floating on the crystal of San's watch. A&S ----------------------------------- I I M&Z I x <------- Scry POV point At this point, San can't hold his liquor, so he excuses himself to the restroom, and Adr